dreaming about edge grained d/r // grain visibility???

[bjrogg]

I'm sorry after looking at your drawing again I see it's a deflex reflex design. Not a five curve. In that case I would have tried to use the stave I pictured as a deflex out of handle and steamed in reflex. I would have thinned to closer to bow size first. I still have know idea if it works

[sleek]

I dont think it will work. But if I were to try it, I'd back it with hickory or bamboo. I still think the belly will fail under sheer. The sheer stresses will make the violated grain slip against itself making the glue line to delam, then boom... just my opinion. 

Dont let that discourage you however, if you have the time, material  and interest, go for it! Just wear safety glasses. 

[George Tsoukalas]

You could not cut it out you'd have to bend it to that, which sounds pretty impossible. Jawge

[simk]

Hi Folks

Thanks for contributing 

First of all I'd like to mention, that my quick and dirty drawing was completly exaggerated...the idea was a mild r/d with max 2" deflex/reflex over a bow of 65" - not some kind of scythian bow 

But regardless of that idea edge grain to me seems very strange and different (and interesting) in many ways.

Yes, there must be a grain flow but: You do not have the layers of early and latewood...the wood is acting much more homogenous. 

Now, what does that mean for bow building? Can you tiller it also from the back? Probably yes. Probably the back must be less critical than on a normal bow.  I heard they cut bombproof edge grained backings, obviously unable to really follow or care about the flow of grain. When do you violate the "back", what's the "back" and where would it exactly be on an edge grained bow? Is it maybe where the stave splits? How important is it really? The mysteries of edge grain 

Why are they not built more often?

Cheers

[simson]

Hi Folks

........
Why are they not built more often?

Cheers

Because it is much more difficult to get a clean back (unviolated fibres).


Your idea of cutting out that profile of a wooden block will cause a lot of left over firwood. And it is a lot of work. Why not go the easy way: chase a ring and steam the stick into the profile you like

[simk]

Thank you Simon. It's not anymore about cutting out that profile. It's about edge grained in general. Therefore allow me to penetrate: What's the "back" and where would it exactly be on an edge grained bow?
Further: On facebook  i recently saw a 150# elb out of exotic wood with an edge grained ash backing. This backing was just cut on a circular saw, regardless of any virtual back or grain. I found that impressive and its also against your theory that it's "much more difficult to get a clean back (unviolated fibres)". DC also wrote that he uses edge grained backings for his bows, and so is Marc i think. How do they make sure to have unviolated fibres on the back? I just bought a big fat ash board to cut backings from...did I miss something?

[DC]

Like I said earier, I try to orient the surface I want to use to a split face. If you look at the picture the right side of the board is a little wavy. When I got the board the edge grain was perfectly straight. There was a drying check down the face you are looking at. The drying checks follow the grain so I split the board along the check. I think this board came from the butt of the tree because it flared out some. When I split it the split was curved. When I wanted a backing strip I scribed a line about 1/4" in following the split face. Sawed it of on the bandsaw. Then I ran it through my thickness sander. Sanded it down to 1/8". The heat from the sander seemed to straighten the strip some. When I need more strips I always work from the same face. I'm not sure if this was a good idea but the strips have help up. Hope that explains what I do.

[simk]

That is very interesting and helpful DC, thank you (just didn't catch your short version). Did you try the cheap way to just cut...? Is your method state of the art or perfectionism 

[DC]

I did try the cheap way and it worked fine. The board is 4' long and I was very careful to cut of the end with the runout. The board is Hard Maple and my tablesaw just smoked and squealed trying to cut it(it's an old worn out saw). I decided to use my bandsaw. I figured if I was using the bandsaw I might as well follow the grain.

[simson]

There is a difference between edge grained selfbows and backed bows with an edge grained backing. No the backed bow not only the backing is an important thing, also the glue line.

I've made some edge grained selfbows (tried to follow the grain as good as possible) in the past, but found no significant advantage. The wood is stiffer that way, but tends to get more set. In my eyes the wrong way ...

Edge grained backings:
IMO (when sawn with cirular saw): try to use highly interlocked grain wood, like elm, carpinus betulus, hickory or some species of ash. Make the backing thin (about 2mm). So the function is more prevent lifting splinters from the main/core wood.