how much tip movement..?

[Badger]

I don't have my glasses and I can't read what I'm writing

[SLIMBOB]

That explains why you “grace the boat” as part of your process. 🙃

[willie]

I never said start the measurement from where the string hangs I said read the measurement just as if it were brace no different

now I am confused

[SLIMBOB]

Hey All, so I have read through again for about the 4th or 5th time...and I think I actually am doing things like both Slimbob and Weylin who I think are working in a fairly similar fashion.  I  think now it is Badger's comments about measuring draw weight/length with the long string that threw me.  I overlooked his point about starting the measurement for draw length/weight from where the string hangs-not the back or belly of the bow... It never occurred to me that I might be able to take a measurement from anywhere but the bow.  And it never occurred to me (on the single bow I have made :-) to worry about draw weight until late in the game.  I was just focused on getting an even bend and not breaking the bow.  I started checking draw weight fairly late in the process.  Which is why I was asking about tip movement cause I couldn't of anything else I could measure to know if it was safe to brace or not...

Thanks so much y'all.  Super helpful to me! I hope to have time this weekend to work on the current hickory stave that is 75% done.  I'll be sure to post pics and more questions. 

Peace, Paul C

Weylin's bows are some of the most impressive you will see anywhere.  I am lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence with him.  I'm simply a journeyman who enjoys the process, has been at it a long time and keeps working at improving on things as I go. Yes our approach is similar to one another.  From what you describe above, your approach to tillering is also similar.  I don't put mine on the scale till it's farther down the road either.  I don't need to.  It's heavy when it is first braced, so I am no where near wondering about it.  Once it is braced and well balanced, I check it on the scale.  Depending on how far I have pulled it on the tiller stick, I still won't pull it to full weight.  I just extrapolate from the numbers where it will be at full draw.  Like you I am concerned with an even bend inch by inch.  I will say again that Steve's way is perfectly acceptable in tillering one to fair-the-well.  As you do enough of these, it seems to me most folks will find what works for them for a while, and then little by little add and subtract various things overtime. 

[Badger]

I never said start the measurement from where the string hangs I said read the measurement just as if it were brace no different

now I am confused

Willie I think it might be confusing you because it is too simple I make no distinction between a brace bow and a bow with a long string because they will read about the same whether they're Brasher on the long string the original question was how much tip movement should he have when he braces the bow. My answer was ignore Kip movement and go by how strong the bow is I like a bow about 10 or 15 pounds heavier than Target weight when I brace it. That means did I will pull it down to about 2 2 to 24 in at Target weight to a person with no experience or a person dealing with a bow weight that is unfamiliar it gives him a solid number he can work with an easy way to monitor that I have a lot of experience and I still use that method

[Weylin]

It is so easy I think it is confusing people you're not measuring drawer late sooner than usual or later than usual or gracing the boat sooner or later than usual you just have more accurate control over when you brace the bow all you have to remember is that the boys will read just about the same brace tour unbraced a short short string or a long short screen it doesn't make much difference if you break him and all that you read them just where you want to read them it's the same you don't allow for anything you don't allow for how long the string is you just read the weight at 24 or 23 or 28 what is braced you're launching it doesn't make a lot of difference if you want to brace the bowl when your target weight at 20 in embrace it and 20 in

Here's what I think Steve was trying to say. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

"It is so easy I think it is confusing people. You're not measuring draw weight sooner than usual or later than usual, or bracing the bow sooner or later than usual. You just have more accurate control over when you brace the bow. All you have to remember is that the bow will read just about the same braced or unbraced, a short short string or a long short string. (I couldn't figure out this next sentence) It doesn't make much difference if you break him and all that you read them just where you want to read them. It's the same. You don't allow for anything. You don't allow for how long the string is, you just read the weight at 24 or 23 or 28 with it braced or long string. It doesn't make a lot of difference. If you want to brace the bow when your target weight at 20 in  then brace it and 20 in"

[paulc]

All this made my day....so damn funny. Paul

[willie]

I make no distinction between a brace bow and a bow with a long string because they will read about the same whether they're Brasher on the long string the original question was how much tip movement should he have when he braces the bow. My answer was ignore Kip movement and go by how strong the bow is I like a bow about 10 or 15 pounds heavier than Target weight when I brace it. That means did I will pull it down to about 2 2 to 24 in at Target weight to a person with no experience or a person dealing with a bow weight that is unfamiliar it gives him a solid number he can work with an easy way to monitor that I have a lot of experience and I still use that method

so I have to admit that I have had a hard time with this effect that badger has described on a few different occasions, so........

I put a bow on the tiller tree with a longstring and made some pulls.
all measurements were from the arrow nock point on the string to the back of the bow handle. it is a simple elb type working handle bow, and the last I checked, the bow draws 45# @27" with a 6" brace when normally strung
I started out with a longstring at 19" and pulled it 9 more inches until the bow drew 28", the tips needless to say did not move a whole lot but it took 35# to make 28". shortening the longstring gave results as follows...
17" droop  longstring = 37#
15' = 39#
13" = 41#
11" = 43#
9" = 44#
6" = 45#
3"= 46#

the results were a bit rough as when the longstring got real short, as what one would call tight to the bow, or 0", it of course got a bit droopy after the pull. (3')  I should also add that I started all pulls by adding 2# to my knockpoint before making the measurement for droop.

Thanks for your patience with all this, Steve. it's useful to know that the longstring ,at any reasonable droop, is such a close estimator.