« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Backing  (Read 3459 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Woodely

  • Member
  • Posts: 381
Backing
« on: May 11, 2019, 07:28:02 pm »
Is sinew really that much weaker than say FG or other synthetic materials.  Sinew is very strong stuff you would think that in some cases it would over power the belly...……… No..!
Logged
"Doing bad work is an exercise in futility, but honestly making mistakes is trying your best."

Offline bassman

  • Member
  • Posts: 962
Re: Backing
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am »
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Logged

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,877
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Backing
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 06:03:50 am »
If the wood being backed is low on elasticity then sinew can overpower it and cause chrysals.  I've had 2 sinew backed bows chrysal on me.  One was a BC recurve and the other was an RD Elm, this Elm was poor in compression
Logged
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline Woodely

  • Member
  • Posts: 381
Re: Backing
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2019, 09:46:46 am »
Quote from: bassman on May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth -on, plastic resin and other notable glues.   You can have the greatest backing on a bow but if the glue is sub standard what good does it do. 
Logged
"Doing bad work is an exercise in futility, but honestly making mistakes is trying your best."

Offline SLIMBOB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,759
  • Deplorable Slim
Re: Backing
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2019, 09:55:32 am »
The wood will fail before a GOOD hide glue joint.
Logged
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,609
Re: Backing
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 10:20:14 am »
You can pull a piece of glass out of a pane with a drop of hide glue. Look up hide glue glass etching.
Also Sinew is elastic unlike FG so the chance of it overpowering a bow probably less likely.
 A few years back a few commercial FG bow builders tried glass backings on selfbows but soon gave up the idea. Must have been a good reason for that.
Logged
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,411
Re: Backing
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2019, 06:34:38 am »
I am pretty sure Ed Scott put his sinew on with titebond, his complete video in on youtube.
Logged

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Backing
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 10:10:35 am »
Quote from: Woodely on May 12, 2019, 09:46:46 am
Quote from: bassman on May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth -on, plastic resin and other notable glues.   You can have the greatest backing on a bow but if the glue is sub standard what good does it do.

 You have determined that hide glue is not a good glue for backing?
Logged

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,411
Re: Backing
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2019, 10:28:50 am »
Hide glue and sinew go together very well, I have never used anything else for a sinew backed bow, I used hide glue and knox and found no difference. I used TB if I was doing a wrap over a cracked place just because it was what I had close at hand, it worked OK.
Logged

Offline bassman

  • Member
  • Posts: 962
Re: Backing
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 05:09:57 am »
Ed scott did use tb2 and 3 , but always talked about sinew as magical stuff. He didn,t like the mess hide glue made.He built a lot of pre stress in his bows so for him it didn't matter.I like hide glue best. JMO.
Logged

Offline Dances with squirrels

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,222
Re: Backing
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 06:58:43 am »
I too like hide glue best with sinew and rawhide backings. Good hide glue crystals. Not that liquid bottled stuff.
Logged
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Woodely

  • Member
  • Posts: 381
Re: Backing
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2019, 08:02:26 am »
Quote from: PatM on May 13, 2019, 10:10:35 am
Quote from: Woodely on May 12, 2019, 09:46:46 am
Quote from: bassman on May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth -on, plastic resin and other notable glues.   You can have the greatest backing on a bow but if the glue is sub standard what good does it do.

 You have determined that hide glue is not a good glue for backing?


"Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth"   I was only assuming as reading past posts about using the glue that it comes apart for thing when it gets wet, so reliability is not its strong point Correct..?   Seriously is there a heads on test compared to other glues.  No lack of Assumptions on this Site...:)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 08:10:29 am by Woodely »
Logged
"Doing bad work is an exercise in futility, but honestly making mistakes is trying your best."

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,609
Re: Backing
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2019, 08:31:13 am »
Like most glues it depends on it's application. I use it almost exclusively on sinew, rawhide and snake skin backings being they are all made of the same thing. I've not used it with wood/wood application so I can't answer to that. I'd say hide glue is not good at gap filing but neither are TB glues. For those applications I'd use Urac(now Unibond), Weldwood plastic resin or others known for gap filing properties. I've used all the TB glues for wood to wood backings without failures and on just about every bow woods we commonly use.
Logged
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline bradsmith2010

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,187
Re: Backing
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2019, 10:26:44 am »
I have read Hide glue is one of the strongest,,but right it is not water resistant as some modern glues ,,,, but its strength is in the top,, I think there is a chart in volume one, I will try to find it,
hide glue and knox gelatin,, were two of the strongest glues tested by tim baker in volume one,, as strong as yellow glue,
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:33:45 am by bradsmith2010 »
Logged

Offline Woodely

  • Member
  • Posts: 381
Re: Backing
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2019, 11:58:09 am »
Thanx good to know about the Tim baker volume one blurb. 
Logged
"Doing bad work is an exercise in futility, but honestly making mistakes is trying your best."
Pages: [1]
« previous next »