Author Topic: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.  (Read 14330 times)

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radius

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Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« on: June 19, 2008, 12:37:32 am »
Well, Mullet's been after me to do a buildalong, so here it is. 

I recently started work at a door/window shop, where we mainly use vertical grain douglas fir but also from time to time use hardwoods.  The other day while stocking up some shelves, i saw a dirty old piece of wood with the words Grey Elm written on it.  It was 4 feet long, 1.5" by 7.5", with a serious bow near one end.  I asked the boss and he was kind enough to give it to me.  So I ran to the table saw, cut it into four chunks 1.75" wide, and then to the bandsaw to resaw these into "billets" 4 feet long, 11/16" thick, by 1.75" wide.

Today I cut out the z-splices using John Strunk's method from TBB1:  stack the billets so that backs are both facing up, tape them together, draw the outline on the top one, and cut with the bandsaw on the lines.  I only used 3 pairs, even though I had 4...one of the pieces didn't turn out so good (bandsaw accident).  Here's what they look like.




Here are a couple set together in prep for glueup.  You can see there's a good-sized gap at the center.  To make up for the gap, I used a rasp to generate some shavings which i later mixed with the epoxy to bond the pieces together.  The other two sets of billets lined up pretty good.




Here is a set of taped-together billets resting on a table.  The back is up, showing what kind of reflex these bows will have when the staves are glued together.




Now, as for the joints.  The outside cut on the z-splice was easy to true:  after cutting it on the bandsaw, I laid the outside cut on the beltsander for 2 seconds:  voila!  Perfectly smooth.  The centerline cut was also easy:  just used a fence on the bandsaw.  But for the inside angled cut, I had to use a different method to clean up the lines.



Here is the epoxy I used, and a little cup with elm shavings that I used to buff up the epoxy on the one pair of billets that was too gappy.



HEre is that pair glued up and clamped.



And finally (for today) since food seems to be so important to everyone here, here's a shot of what I ate for supper tonight.






PLANS FOR THESE STAVES

These staves are quite long, 68" I think, and as I said, 1.75" wide.  According to Paul Comstock, that should be good for 60 # of pull.   The reflex is not severe, only moderate, which should make tillering fairly easy.  I think I'm going to floor tiller each one, and then apply 1/8" of hickory backing over them.  I just want something continuous spanning the bow along the back to protect the splice.  I have only spliced one bow before, a (very) short HBO, so I guess I'm a bit shy about letting the splice do all the work without a brace. 

I will make at least one holmegaard out of these...maybe 2...out of all the bows I've made, I think my HBO holmegaard is my favourite...

One of the bows I plan to give to my boss, who gave me the wood, as a thank you present.   Maybe he will hang it in the shop...who know?  Maybe he will shoot it. 

Just as long as he doesn't shoot ME with it! ;D

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 01:16:30 am »
It's a chilly evening, so the epoxy hasn't set up yet, an hour and a half later.  I went outside to check on the billets, and sure enough, one of them had come apart.   Wrapped it with inner tube...worked much better than the c-clamps.  I see now (shoulda known) why people use PVA for splicing sometimes:  3 magic words:  High Initial Tack.

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 11:44:38 am »
couple more things:

I brought the billets inside last night after wrapping that one with inner tube.  Something' s up with this g2 epoxy.  The first batch I bought stunk like crazy, but this batch is just fine.  Maybe they changed the formula a bit.  Maybe I got used to it.  Or maybe it gets old and starts to stink after awhile.

Also:  Originally the billets were 49" long.  I was able to select the best 3' out of each one, and use that for the billets.  I have a few foot-long chunks that I can use later as risers and stuff. 


Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 06:11:22 pm »
There is a huge gap in your splice.  If you would sand or cut the inner points would let you get a much better fit.  With that fat of glue lines you are asking for a failure.  Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 10:12:11 pm »
it'll be okay...these are going to be stiff handled bows, glued with mega-epoxy, and backed the whole length with one solid strip of hickory.

I definitely had some trouble though.  The outer parts of the splice glued up easy:  tight fit, strong bond...but the inner (gappy) portion bled out.  Partly the gap.  Partly my half-assed "shop". 

Anyway, today I bought a hickory 1x6, and tomorrow i will cut it and sand it into 3/16 parallel strips...it is 1" thick, so I should be able to get about 8 pieces out of it.  Maybe I should make the backing 1/8, so I can get 10 or 12...

Offline akila

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2008, 01:41:47 pm »
I wass just aboute to ask you iff you leave that bilets like that and try to make a bow out of themm, becose the grain has some seriose run ups, so its a god thing that you will back it with something,,,..aniway good luck with this one... ;)

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 12:13:08 am »
I must be doing something wrong, because i keep making bows with the grain all over the place, and most of them come out just fine???

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2008, 01:59:23 am »
okay, today i epoxied the hickory backing strips on 2 of the 3, after scraping the gunk off the back of the handles and giving a little love to the back of the staves in general.  They all have  ~2 inches of glued-in reflex.  I can't take pictures for you until i get some new batteries:  the damn thing just quit on me today!  But I feel good about this project...

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 01:09:45 am »
Progress...of sorts...

After the epoxy cured, i drew the outline of a holmegaard on the back of the 2 staves. 

4 inch handles
2 inch fades
parallel limbs (the bending portion of the limbs:  18 inches each)
outer limbs taper from 3/4" to 1/2"

Then yesterday morning, i tossed those in the back of the truck and went to work early.  I cut them out on the big bandsaw there, and used the belt sander to smooth the edges to make it easy to draw the side profile.  Then, i was surprised to discover we were having a beer day after work and a barbecue, so i stayed a couple hours late and drank beer in the sun. 

When i got home, i laid out the side profiles.

Do you see where this is going? :-\

My lines were good, and this morning when i cut them out i wound up with 2 well shaped bows, looking like primo holmie material...except the inner limbs were too thin.  Including the hickory backing strip, the bending parallel sections were about 7/16".  I took a look at my hickory/osage holmegaard, added a little, and went for it.  But elm is not osage.  The bows were too lightweight for my liking.  I cut the pin nocks at home tonight after work, made a string, and found each stave has a stiff limb and a limb slightly hinged about 6" beyond the fades. 

Solutions:

1.  Go with it, and give the lightweights to some lady hunters.
2.  Add a belly lam.
3.  Add another backing strip.

Having a glue line, I could not heat treat the belly, so I opted for #3.  But rather than just simply gluing another strip of hickory onto the staves as they were, to tiller later, I scraped the bellies (not the hinge!) until I achieved some smooth bending.  Then I epoxied the backing strips on and fastened them into Perry Reflex.  Here are your photos.

The end profile:



The glueline (what glueline!?)




The two staves side by side.



My pee-poor splice job...better luck next time...I should be okay provided i feel no bend in the handle...I may run a couple trenails through the handle later on....


A shot of the two glued-up staves in perry reflex


With pretillering, all you need is a block under the dead center of the handle, and the staves curve neatly down to the tips, even when bent backward!



Excess epoxy showing between the "core" and the new backing strip.


Tip fastened to form with rubber band.



There you go, drunk layout fixed...more to come.



radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2008, 07:20:02 pm »
Well, screwed up again!  Not drinking this time, either...just somehow failed to clamp one tip with enough pressure. 



Here is the same limb ...same side...just shifted the camera over 4 inches or so.



As you can see, there is a huge blunder which eats up 4 inches of the tip...so I cut both tips four inches and re-cut and shaped the nocks.















I like to use the pullsaw first for many things, but i used my block plane alot in trimming off the excess hickory from the sides of the new backings.  Here's what they looked like when the rubber tires came off.




Here's the one with the full-length limb, after cleaning up the excess.





not too bad.

Here is the shortened one ... i may end up extending this tip (which means reducing the length of the bending portion of the inner limb)...but for now it looks like this.




The two together from each end.  You can see by the dark spots of heartwood that these bows were cut from the same boards.






Ok and here is a shot of the shortened bow's reflex.  Pretty good.



PARTICULARS:


The shortened bow is the wider bow.  It is now very stout, but still light.  I look forward to reading about Mass in the TBB4.  Elm is very light.  The osage holmegaard i made draws 45 # approximately, it is 1.5 inches wide, and the bending limbs are maybe 3/8 " thick including the hickory backing.  This Elm was 1 3/4" wide, 1/2" thick including the backing, and drew very little at all.  Now, with the additional backing and glueline and reflex, they finally have decent strength potential. 

i don't know about the elm, though:  i sharpened my scraper big time, and still only get dust and shavings from the belly....



radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2008, 08:30:43 pm »
long one broke

Offline mullet

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2008, 10:23:55 pm »
  Well find that same kid on steroids and tell him he's got another bow. 8)
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

radius

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Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2008, 11:12:10 pm »
i may just have to do that! :P

too much going on to work on bows right now...but judging by the quiet in this thread, nobody's gonna mind...