Ocean Spray flight arrows?

[Sagebrush]

Hello all, Long time follower but first time posting a thread.

Last year I was having lunch in a small burger joint and I looked on the wall to find all of these world record flight shooting Awards and bows. When I asked about them a very nice older gentleman came out from behind the counter and talked with me for a bit. He didn't seem interested in primitive bow making but he loved glass and Flight shooting. This began my dalliance with flight shooting.  I didn't understand until recently that Larry Hatfield was a legend. Small world I guess.

After three decades of shooting I am now back where I started: flinging arrows into the sky.  My question to you all is about arrows.  I have a good deal of ocean spray and it seems that it is dense, sinks in water, is near unbreakable and would be a good candidate. I could build cedar, osier, and pine. I am beginning to build 23 to 25 inch primitive class flight arrows. Any experiment directing thoughts???

Thank you all for your thoughts and direction over the years.

[Badger]

  I think ocean spray would be an excellent candidate for flight arrows. Stiffness is a major issue once you get down to small diameters. I believe ocean spray is very stiff. If you can come up with one about 1/4" diameter and around 250 grains or less that is still stiff enough you should be good to go.

[Sagebrush]

Thanks! I will get started and post some updates when my field has less than 27 inches of snow. I appreciate the help. Oh one more thought... I heat treat my ocean spray bows, should I do the same for the arrows? Thanks again.

D

[Ed Brooks]

I like my OS and and have been thinking the same thing about some of the smaller diameter shafts. Let us know how they do. Good Luck! Ed

[Woodely]

I cut some OS a couple years ago and was not fond of the pith.  Needless to say I dont think I'll use OS for shafts.  Not sure what you guys think.

[willie]

so would a pith that could be reamed out yield a hollow arrow? strength with a little less weight?

[Sagebrush]

The pithy core in the shafts is between 1/32 and 1/8 of an inch.  I was shocked that I could get a 12 inch drill bit started. I'm not sure I'll be able to pull it off without the infamous O.S. drying cracks. We shall see...

[DC]

so would a pith that could be reamed out yield a hollow arrow? strength with a little less weight?

I've been thinking about strength with a little less weight. Is light and stiff the objective? If so why do the flight guys use dense wood? Is it the smaller diameter for the same thickness? Is a tube always stiffer than a solid rod of the same weight? I made a 24" 1/8" dia drill bit and tried to drill out the OS pith. No joy. It kept coming through the side no matter how straight the OS was. I think the nodes were steering the drill bit. The pith would be substantially lighter than the wood, I think, so maybe there's not much to be gained by drilling them. First year OS have a bigger pith so there might be  something there to think about. Not sure about the quality of first year wood though.

[DC]

I cut some OS a couple years ago and was not fond of the pith.  Needless to say I dont think I'll use OS for shafts.  Not sure what you guys think.

What didn't you like about the pith?

[Ed Brooks]

I’ve found the younger shoots seem to have more pith, some of the older small diameter shafts seem to have less pith & more wood. I’m also wondering the way OS likes heat in bow form, would heat help stiffen the arrow shafts as well? Ed

[willie]

don
Is a tube always stiffer than a solid rod of the same weight?

weight for weight, yes because it will be a slightly larger diameter, where it counts more for stiffness

the question is whether for 2 same stiffness arrows, will the slightly larger dia arrow be better for for being a bit lighter?

I have reamed bamboo with a a few applications of a red hot wire, something softer might be able to follow the pith better

[Sagebrush]

I was going to do some testing... but the pith weighs nothing so it is effectively hollow as is.  I was also going to try to make some solid shafts from larger branches that I've dried. In 90 meter shooting for FITA small dense arrows maintained downrange velocity and were less affected by wind. I.E. an ACE/x10 versus a larger diameter aluminium. This was my thought process at least.

[avcase]

don
Is a tube always stiffer than a solid rod of the same weight?

weight for weight, yes because it will be a slightly larger diameter, where it counts more for stiffness

the question is whether for 2 same stiffness arrows, will the slightly larger dia arrow be better for for being a bit lighter?

I have reamed bamboo with a a few applications of a red hot wire, something softer might be able to follow the pith better

First priority is getting the right arrow stiffness so it is tuned to the bow. Larger diameter is worse due to higher drag, but lower mass gives higher speed to fight gravity.  These compromises are what keeps it interesting. If the draw weight of the bow is high and the arrow can be short, then it is usually better to go with a higher density arrow shaft material.

[DC]

First priority is getting the right arrow stiffness so it is tuned to the bow.

I was getting the impression that you could get a little liberal with the spine in flight arrows. Now I'm thinking that the only reason you can go to a lighter spine is because you have little or no tip weight. Am I right?

[Woodely]

I cut some OS a couple years ago and was not fond of the pith.  Needless to say I dont think I'll use OS for shafts.  Not sure what you guys think.

What didn't you like about the pith?

I dont trust a soft core it can collapse if attaching points and and making nocks.  Been thar dun that....!      I'm happy with true doweling.