Overbuilt bows

[Selfbowman]

Question: if bow is overbuilt. Why would the bow take set. I can understand if underbuilt. Seams to me the bow with very little or no set can not be overbuilt. Just asking. Arvin

[Bayou Ben]

That is a good question.  I have never intentionally overbuilt a bow, but logic would suggest that if the entire bow is overbuilt, it shouldn't take much set. 

"Seams to me the bow with very little or no set can not be overbuilt"  Why is that?  I would think the other way around, if overbuilt, the bow shouldn't take set.

[bradsmith2010]

Moisture content,..or over stressed when tillering,,,could cause set

[PatM]

It might only be overbuilt by the perceived qualities the wood is assumed to have but not what it  really has.

 I left a featherweight  "pithy"  Elm stave roughed out for years because of my assumption of its quality based on that.  I finally finished it out and it had hidden qualities nobody would have ever guessed at.

 Conversely I've had Elm that could have passed for HHB and it wasn't particularly good.

[DC]

Even if the bow is overbuilt you can have spots that are over stressed and take set. It may not show just looking at it but if you have made tracing of the bow before and after you can pick out the spots where the set is. I tiny bit of set close to the fade can turn into quite a bit by the end of the limb.

[PatM]

So true. A bow tends to only be overbuilt relative to being well tillered as well.   

[Selfbowman]

Thanks guys . Keep going this sheds some light on the term overbuilt. Arvin

[Jim Davis]

Definitions matter. My idea of an overbuilt bow is one that can bend some amount beyond what is needed without damage. Then when it is always used at the normal draw length, it will never fail--because it can do more.

That condition results from the tillering and is independent of all other factors.

[PatM]

Definitions matter. My idea of an overbuilt bow is one that can bend some amount beyond what is needed without damage. Then when it is always used at the normal draw length, it will never fail--because it can do more.

That condition results from the tillering and is independent of all other factors.

 How can it be independent of other factors?

[Jim Davis]

Obviously, the bowyer considers all the other factors. The result is accomplished only by the doing of the tillering. We do that with every bow we make. They turn out well if they are tillered well. A perfect stave will not be a good  bow unless tillered well. And a second rate stave can be a first rate bow it tillered well.

[bradsmith2010]

if I make a bow and its too overbuilt,, it may not take set, but it will shoot slow,, I usually think the limbs have too much mass for the weight and draw,, or I didnt tiller the limbs right for the mass they have,,

[PatM]

Obviously, the bowyer considers all the other factors. The result is accomplished only by the doing of the tillering. We do that with every bow we make. They turn out well if they are tillered well. A perfect stave will not be a good  bow unless tillered well. And a second rate stave can be a first rate bow it tillered well.

  I don't see the correlation to the bow being overbuilt or not. 

[Bayou Ben]

I guess it depends on your definition of overbuilt.  I think of Badger's mass theory when I think of overbuilt bows.  There's more wood than is necessary to prevent the bow from taking set.  If the bow takes set in a certain area, that area is underbuilt. 
So by that definition a badly tillered bow or a bow with set in any part of the bow couldn't be considered overbuilt.
 

[PatM]

Is this going to turn into a "power lam" definition argument.  lol

 Overbuilt: More than enough material to do the job.   The mass theory was originally about the minimum required to do the job.

 No need to go off on a bad tiller or set tangent unless you are using uniform set as evidence that the bow is not overbuilt after all.

 Overbuilding does tend to add in a certain amount of protection to overdrawing although doing so routinely ultimately means  you are just asking the bow to be an optimally designed bow relative to the materials.   It's no longer overbuilt then.

[Selfbowman]

Very interesting guys. Like most all things . Depends on where you are standing for a meaning or name. Kinda like Osage, hedge apple, horse apple, Bois D'arc . Except these all refer to the same wood.  Arvin