Osage for lighter poundage English longbow?

[Shawn Rackley]

I have been wondering, does Osage orange make a good English style longbow? Now, not a 140# warbow, more like 45-50 #? I have a yew English longbow and love it. Just can't shoot it in the cold, but have been told Osage can be shot in the cold without issue. So I was considering an Osage elb. Just curious on your opinions? I won't be building this bow, John strunk will be building it.  Any advice or insight will be greatly appreciated.

[bradsmith2010]

it can make a nice bow,,

[Del the cat]

Dunno why you can't shoot a Yew ELB in the cold?... and how cold?
(The Yew trees seem just fine in cold...)
The battle of Towton was in a raging snow storm... had I been there I'd have asked for a postponement 
Personally I'd think Osage a bit too punchy for a light weight bow... it would end up being as thin as a pencil.
Del

[Weylin]

I agree with Del that yew does just fine in the cold. Bows break sometimes and people like to blame things other than themselves. That being said, you can make a lighter weight ELB with Osage you just have to be really careful not to over build it. Like Del said, it doesn't take much osage to make a bow and if the limbs are carrying too much mass then you get some serious handshock. I recently had an osage stave that wasn't going to be anything but an elb, it was just too narrow to make anything else so that's what I did. I was a little worried about the handshock issue so I was very conscious about the proportions and it turned out to be a fast shooting, smooth bow. It has very minimal handshock. I really like it. Here's a link to my post on that bow. Good luck with yours.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,64187.msg902384.html#msg902384

[Shawn Rackley]

When I say cold, I mean well below freezing. It was 22 degrees Fahrenheit  here. Most bowyers and ppl I have talked to that work with yew have instructed me not to chance shooting one below 40 degrees. That has been from several sources including John strunk, the builder of my yew bow.  I know weylin works with a lot of yew wood bows, so I'm not dismissing your knowledge. Just been told by many others it's not a good idea. Not to mention if it would be a good bow, would love to have one from osage.

[Del the cat]

That's fine, we don't get it that cold in the UK... and personally I wouldn't be out shooting below 50F 'cos we aren't allowed to hunt so there's no point!
I have no experience at those temps.
Maybe if we do get a really cold snap I'll take a scruffy old bow out and see if it's me or the bow that fails firsts 
Good huntin'
Del

[Badger]

  When I use a heavy dense wood for Elbs I like to leave the center section a little stiffer and bot go for that full compass tiller shape. It helps a lot with the handshock. For a light bow with osage I wouldn't go quite as long either, maybe 66" or so works great.

[bradsmith2010]

like Badger said it can make a really nice bow,, and its a bit more durable than most woods,, yew might be the best wood for that design, but osage can make a very nice shooting bow,, that can take the cold and harsh weather as well,, and a bit of banging around in the woods,,and still last for decades,,that being said, I have a really nice yew stave i hope to make a nice bow from,,,

[George D. Stout]

Not sure exactly what bows went with the Byrd Expedition in the 1930's but they took some along for exercise purposes.  They kept the  outside at an average temperature of -20 degrees or even less.  They had none break during that trip and they used them as intended.  Many were lemonwood most likely too.   I thinks folks repeat what they hear about old selfbows rather than bring experience.

[Weylin]

I honestly can't speak from personal experience because I'm not too keen on shooting bows when it's bitter cold. I've talked to people who have done plenty of shooting in cold weather with yew bows with no ill effect. I have the upmost respect for Mr. Strunk and I have learned a lot of what I know from him. He could be right. It just doesn't make a lot of sense given that wood in general tolerates extreme temperatures regularly without any ill effect. I think Yew can be a little temperamental in general and there isn't always a good explanation about why they break. It makes sense that people would try to explain the breakage based on their circumstances but it isn't very scientific. It's really hard for us to make specific conclusions about many different aspects of wood bow making because there are always to many variables to account for and the sample sizes will always be too small. We just have to learn to trust our intuition and experiences but I think sometimes those can lead us to false conclusions. So, I could very well be wrong on this but for me, I feel a little suspicious of that particular "trait" of yew.

[Badger]

Weylin, I have had a few of my yew bows break over the years in Utah. Hot dry climate and they sat in my car for 4 days. I attributed it extra dry conditions like you might also experience in cold climates. My bows were built at close to 10% and dried down below 6%.

[DC]

Quite often around here(Yew country) if we get a cold snap it is outflow winds from the interior and they can be dry. Could be the "cold" breaks are actually "dry" breaks.

[Weylin]

Low MC I totally believe, and you're right, cold and low RH go hand in hand. I suspect that is what is at play more than the cold. If you were able to keep the bow at a healthy MC I don't think the cold would do anything to it.

[bowster]

I´ve built an elb: osage, 76@28, I feel no hand shock, and it shoots an 750gr arrow  for 225 yards, and my osage bows never break, yew is some kind of a bitch, especially if it gets to dry, sometimes the bows really explode.

[PatM]

The tales you hear of Yew exploding in cold don't typically have enough time span for moisture content to drop though.