Author Topic: Medieval arrow shaft production methods  (Read 23597 times)

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Offline WillS

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2018, 12:56:40 pm »
@Will Sherman

First time I hear about using alder, do you have some pictures of your alder arrows, how does it behave in contrast with aspen and poplar?

Alder was likely a very popular shaft material as it behaves just like any other good shaft material - light and strong.  Many of the MR arrows were made of alder (I've forgotten how many) and the ones that I've looked at that were confirmed to be alder are impossible to tell apart from other woods - as you can see from these pics!

These are alder.







These are willow (again, a brilliant arrow shaft material and also found on the MR)





These are Pop. nigra or Black Poplar which is essentially aspen. 





And these are linden or lime.



As you can see, a white arrow shaft is a white arrow shaft!  At 1/2" diameter they all behave the same really - you notice differences when you work them, especially when you're splitting the ends with a blade to fit the horn insert as some species have very straight grain and some don't (or simply don't like to follow it!) but unless you're up close you just wouldn't know.  Willow is slightly softer, which I assume is why the Mary Rose willow shafts were generally larger than all the others.

Offline willie

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2018, 07:06:15 pm »
Quote
As you can see, a white arrow shaft is a white arrow shaft!

yes, and the alder we have around here, splits fairly nice.
nice pics there Will, I always enjoy viewing your arrows.

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2018, 10:23:57 pm »
Will,
Nice arrows!  Is the green a paint/stain, or some kind of wrap?  Thanks,
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline WillS

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2018, 01:39:34 am »
The green is the fletching glue.  It's a mixture of beeswax, hard kidney fat and copper verdigris.  The shafts are coated in the mixture, then when it cools the feathers are bound into it using silk and then the mixture is reheated to let it flow over the bindings, securing everything in place.

It's how the majority of the MR arrows were made, as well as the Westminster Abbey arrow and probably 90% of all military arrows dating back as far as the 1100s.  Before then the glue was either birch tar or pine pitch, applied in the same way.

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2018, 10:25:03 am »
Beeswax and pine pitch, I got, copper verdigris is an unknown to me!  Different agents for different colors?   Also the silk wrap is worked down through the fletch, or through from the side with a fine needle, looks like about a 1/4" or 6 mm spacing!  My precision skills are a bit wonky - it's hard to find left handed needles! (lol) (lol). As soon as I get the Christmas stuff done, I have to make some arrows for my landowner.
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline FilipT

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2018, 11:06:50 am »
Well I will definitely try making some warbow arrows from alder as it is very prevalent here around my house. Great looking arrows btw!

Offline DC

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2018, 12:52:22 pm »
Copper verdigris is copper sulphate (I think) It's an anti fungal, anti some other stuff. It was a preservative to keep bugs and stuff from the feathers while they waited for a war. :D

Offline WillS

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2018, 01:09:49 pm »
Copper acetate ;)

We're not actually sure why they used it - there's no documentation to suggest it was a preventative against rot/insects but it does work as one.  It's my personal belief that it was actually a byproduct of mixing the glue in a copper pot, but who knows.  The artwork from the medieval period that does show verdigris on arrows shows a vast range of colour intensity, with some appearing bright green and some being very faint.  Certainly the arrows that I've examined show virtually no signs of green colouration, which is why I've developed the mixture seen in my first photo, the yellowish glue.  It's an identical match in colour and texture to a number of MR originals and contains only trace amounts of copper.

The wooden cones of the arrows that would have been inside the heads show a similar amount of copper on the analysis reports, and there's no point deliberately putting copper into the fish glue for those, so again it probably came from the glue pot itself.

Offline FilipT

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2018, 01:57:39 pm »
Is it easy and inexpensive to make this kind of fletching glue? Maybe the yellowish is more accurate historically, but green looks absolutely amazing but I am not sure does it make finding arrows harder if they land in some bush. :D

Btw, where do you get feathers? Searched on ebay but everything seems too soft and bad in quality. Last month I got wild geese feathers and they were absolutely awful, much shorter than advertised and way too soft. But I got practice working with feathers and gluing them, no matter how unusable arrows were.

Offline WillS

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2018, 05:14:48 pm »
It's easy, but you have to be prepared to adapt as you go because natural ingredients are always different.  Once you've done it a few times you know what to look for.

I always use wild goose or swan feathers.  There's no point buying them as water birds drop their feathers every season so just pick them up.

Offline Tuomo

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2018, 02:57:27 am »
For mine, I aim to be as historically correct as possible so the timber that I'm using will be alder, linden and mainly aspen - not "poplar" as this is now the common name for tulipwood or "yellow poplar" but true aspen or Populus tremula

Why they used soft woods? Had soft woods some kind of advantage over hard woods (oak, ash, beech, etc.) as war arrow material? Or, was the reason that hard woods were reserved for other purposes?

Offline FilipT

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Re: Medieval arrow shaft production methods
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2018, 09:06:04 am »
I always use wild goose or swan feathers.  There's no point buying them as water birds drop their feathers every season so just pick them up.

Yeah, but there are no wild geese here and swans come in groups of 3 maybe at most.  ;)