I have a question..

[akila]

Hello .....i wass wondering....do you think its posibile to glue an all bamboo bow using hide glue... i wass thinking at a delfex-reflex design, usin raw bamboo and bamboo flooring as a core lam. gluing evreything only with hide glue...

[Justin Snyder]

Strongest glue there is.  Why not.

[Jesse]

Really Justin? hide glue is the strongest? Thats pretty cool if your right. Ive never made any but that would certainly be the missing link in my natural bow making. I use power tools but like the finished product to be from natural materials as possible I just asumed hide glue could not be used on these high stress designs but I guess why not. Horn bows are made with fish bladder glue right? Hmmmm Im going to do a little research and give it a try.
Akila --- Make sure you post your results good or bad  so guys like me can learn a thing or two.     Jesse

[akila]

Yess sure i will do that....i have a fiew things in my mind....i realy cant sleep at night sometimes becose of that ...i realy wish to make a asiatic bow,but i have to say that materials are realy expensive , and  the transpot costs are realy big, so im trying to find some alternatives....si i  have found that its posibile to make asiatic bow using only raw bamboo for back and belly and sinew......then i have done some research, and i also have found some realy nice bows made only from bamboo...so  i realy want a bow like this...but again its the problem with materials and transport costs, so its a little dificult for me to buy some epoxy or bow grip or something like that, so this is why i ask this question..if hide glue can be use to glue bamboo backings, or to make an all bamboo bow....i now that its a verry strong glue, but i realy dont know how it will performe to an deflex-reflex bow...

[PatM]

It is actually not the strongest there is. Probably not by a long shot but it still works very well. Obviously it's all there was during the days of the Composite so it handles even those high stresses admirably. All those laminated Bamboo Asian bows  were originally glued with hide glue or fish glue. as well.
 The trick apparently is multiple sizing coats. You hear of Asian bows having up to 70 coats.

[akila]

Yeah...you right...i know that they do this sizzing thing...but i have read that only 3 or 4 coats  of hide glue , wich is made a little thinner then the actulay hide glue wich is use to glue up sinew or horn....i didnt know that they put 70 coats sometimes..

[Justin Snyder]

PatM, it actually is the strongest glue there is.  There are adhesives and epoxies that are stronger, but they are not glues. I guarantee it wont be the hide glues fault if it fails, it will be the bowyers.  Justin

[adb]

Hide glue is very strong, but it's NOT waterproof.

[Justin Snyder]

but it's NOT waterproof.

It can be. 

[grantmac]

What precisely is sizing? Can it be done with something like TBII?
        Thanks,
                Grant

[Badger]

    I have done quite a few wood backed bows with hide glue, never had the glue fail if I had good glue lines. I also used to use liquid fish glue from Lee Valley. You don't have to mix it. Steve

[akila]

Hi and thks for your replays....sizzling is  whenn you aply a thinn coat of glue first over the things that you are trying to flue together...this is to asure a better glue surface, and to seal the poores of the wood so that the glue do not penetrate the wood to deep and to fast , resulting in an poor glue line, so iff you put a fiew thinn coats of glue first, you will have a better surface for glue...this sizziling thing is verry important on composite bows, specialy whenn you glue the horn to the belly of the bow.....first you have to aply 4 coats of glue over the horn and belly , and then you can actualy glue the horn in place...im sorry for my poor english....

[Justin Snyder]

Grant, sizing is exactly what Akila said, and yes it works great with TB.  With TB, if you apply more than one layer of TB to the bow you must apply them before the previous layer is dry. I put on one even coat to each surface wait until it is tacky then stick them together quicker. If PVA glues like Titebond get to dry before a second coat is added it will NOT stick to the first.  Hide glue is the only glue that will stick to a dry layer of itself. Hide glue also gels and holds before it dries. Then as it dries it sucks the joint together so it don't require super tight clamping. Hide glue also forms an airtight joint which is why it is used on musical instruments. When PVA glues dry they gt a tiny honeycomb of air bubbles so they require a more precise clamping pressure.  Justin

[grantmac]

I will try sizing my TB next time I do a glue-up. I have been just applying it to one surface fairly thick and then clamping with inner tubes, so far I haven't had any glue-lines fail but I also haven't tried any highly stressed designs either. Hopefully my currently BBI ELB will hold togather, I will definately use a foam brush an apply a few thin layers to the next one.
     Cheers,
             Grant

[Justin Snyder]

I started using a little roller in stead of a brush at the suggestion of a cabinet maker friend. I love the nice even coat I get with the roller.  Justin