Bow design and development

[Halfbow]

halfbow- thanks for the information... it is something that will be good to think about.  Have you ever made the 3 bows in your drawing to do a FDC on each for comparison?  Testing the 3 for speed, smoothness, and stability would be fun too.

Sadly no. Maybe one day I will find the time to make a more toned down version of this in wood. It would be fascinating. But it would be quite a test of skill to get 3 bows with different unbraced profiles to bend to the same shape and draw weight!

[DC]

The more I look at this design the more I think that the Wilcox Duoflex is kind of the pinnacle of the design. Does anyone have any pictures of one? Any more info than TBB? I did a google search and there doesn't seem to be much. I'm particularly interested in an unbraced side profile view and how many lams of whatever it was made of.

[Badger]

When I first started building bows I was unknowingly building the duoflex bows. I was using 3 lams. They are great shooters. But the bottom line is if you are using wood to build bows the first consideration has to be saying within the material limits of wood which really limits your options. You can build some outlandish aggressive profiles that will be decent shooters but if you have exceeded the limits of wood it won't be any better than a much more moderate design. I can get 100% ratio of stored energy to draw force using as little as 3" reflex. If deflexed out of the handle and recurved to gain the reflex you can max out a wood bow design as long as it is properly executed and doesn't take set. Horn and sinew of course as well as fiberglass are different animals but will still max out at just about the same place. Using wood to duplicate horn sinew or fiberglass is an exercise in futility.

[Halfbow]

The more I look at this design the more I think that the Wilcox Duoflex is kind of the pinnacle of the design. Does anyone have any pictures of one? Any more info than TBB? I did a google search and there doesn't seem to be much. I'm particularly interested in an unbraced side profile view and how many lams of whatever it was made of.

There are some unbraced pictures on this site in German. http://www.broadheads.de/docs/bowdocs/Willcox_Duoflex.html It was made of aluminum?? Was that common?

But I agree, this profile in the correct dimensions can't be too far off from an ideal design for wood. The bow I have in mind to make next will have a lot in common with that.

[PatM]

Originally they were Osage and Hickory and I've read that some had a middle lam of Beech.

[Badger]

Originally they were Osage and Hickory and I've read that some had a middle lam of Beech.

   Mine were maple, walnut and rosewood belly. I got a big junk of it from someone at the airlines who bought it before it became illegal.

[DC]

I know that it's pushing the limits but I thought if I could see an original Duoflex I could back off a bit and give it a shot. I want to see where the string hits the limb at brace. 
I've seen the German site and Google translates it quite well. I wasn't sure if the aluminum one would have the same profile or not if it's the only picture I can find it will do. The fact that they made some of aluminum makes me think that they realised they were pushing the wood.
Osage I got, Hickory may be tough to get. All the shovel handles seem to be Ash or no name overseas wood. Maybe Bamboo. Maybe Bamboo Yew. That's always been a good combo.
Thanks for the info
Steve maple walnut and rosewood? If you were to try it again would you use the same wood?

[Badger]

I know that it's pushing the limits but I thought if I could see an original Duoflex I could back off a bit and give it a shot. I want to see where the string hits the limb at brace. 
I've seen the German site and Google translates it quite well. I wasn't sure if the aluminum one would have the same profile or not if it's the only picture I can find it will do. The fact that they made some of aluminum makes me think that they realised they were pushing the wood.
Osage I got, Hickory may be tough to get. All the shovel handles seem to be Ash or no name overseas wood. Maybe Bamboo. Maybe Bamboo Yew. That's always been a good combo.
Thanks for the info
Steve maple walnut and rosewood? If you were to try it again would you use the same wood?

    I have done a few very similar since then and i usually go with hickory or maple back and osage belly. Anything for the core. The only difference is I don't let my recurves work. The duoflex was a pretty fast bow but not any better than bows you see posted here all the time. I think it cast about 180 yards with 10 grains which is decent but not a barn burner. The original ones I built I had no idea what I was doing but got lucky, I think they were in the upper 40#'s. I used 3 each 1/8" laminations and tapered the width for about 2/3 of the bow. The curves were flexing. I think I used about 1 3/4 wide.

[Bayou Ben]

Marc tried one out about 10 years ago......http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,5717.0.html

[Stick Bender]

There is also a nice D/R lam bow build in TBB4 that could easily could be modified I thought about building that one modified, using hickory for the back it's a pretty simple quick build ,maybe I will build that one in a FH design over winter ,I have all the lams for it lying around or I could grind them , Steve mentioned this before about lam bows the first one is always a prototype , but if I was chasing speed in a all natural bows I would go horn/composite there are guys here and other places making some screamers , maybe it's just me but most of the wood bows I have made that where fast always broke down speed wise after about 500 arrows with the exception of bamboo baked ones ! I'm not saying I can't make consistent wood bows just the ones in the 180s fps or above .it's hard for me keeping them there after many arrows !

[DC]

I'm probably not testing mine long enough. I like making bows more than shooting them and make too many to put a lot of arrows through them. So what seems like a very good bow to me may break down after more arrows. I'll have to keep that in mind.

[Badger]

Stick, 180 is not shabby at all for a wood bow. If I can get one to settle in at about 184 I am extremely happy. I am happy with anything over 180.

[Stick Bender]

Don ,I have a long draw 31 in. so that adds fps but probably contributes to break down in wood bows to ,if I make bows in the 170 fps range they stay consistent it seems, so I might be under building the fast ones, I built a slightly reflexed BBH that shoots the low 170s consistently  and I have well over 1000 arrows threw it & it stays put even after long stringing !

[Stick Bender]

Steve I would be more then happy with consistent 180s in a wood bow after 500 arrows, I'm not there yet with wood , but I'm curious if a multi lam bow like in TBB 4 might hold it's profile better with the multi glue lines in the lams at longer draws & be more durable ? I guess there is only one way to find out !

[Bayou Ben]

Ritchie, that bow in TBB4 is skirting the line of what an all wood bow can do IMO.  I wouldn't veer from that recipe called out, unless it's to increase the working limb.  That bow is osage/osage/bamboo and has tip wedges of 12", a power lam/riser of 16" and is 66" ntn.  Do the math; there's not much working limb.  There's less than 1" deflex and a good amount of reflex.  I've tried it with other woods and they have failed miserably, and the bows didn't like much my 29.5" draw.  I've since dialed it back, and I've had much better luck. 
 
I do like how I can bend multiple lams without heat though, and they hold their shape quite well.