Tiller Check

[simk]

Hi Folks

Last week I finished this bow. On the tiller-wall it looked good and the upper limb (on the right side) has a 1/10 "positive tiller and is 1" longer. Today I took the pics and got the impression that she's not balanced. Should I maybe weaken the upper limb a bit before presentation? Thanx for your appreciated help 
...
[Have't really shot her yet due to lack of arrows for this draw weight - tomorrow I will have the possibility to test her with different arrows... ]

[burchett.donald]

  Simk,
            That looks really good on the tree...Did you tiller the last few inches in hand? This may help http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,62531.0.html
                                                                                                        Don

[simk]

Hi Don, what do you mean with "in hand"? Do you mean to monitor and check the tiller by drawing her in hand - not only on the wall? No I didn't - only tillerd on the wall. Probably it would be better to check tiller with real draw-situation in hand indeed. If I tiller on the wall I always have a bad feeling about position of the bow and the position of the attack-point on the string...I will give you the example as a pic in 10 min....cheers 

[simk]

1st tiller wall pic the atttack point on the string was too low. so here you see what happens if I try to get a more realistic attack point. I always struggle with good positioning the bow on the wall. What am I doin wrong? Would maybe tiller "in hand" the last few inches help? Do you do so? Do you alwas have a photograher? Cheers

[Don - interesting link...same thing happend to you.... - will read this thread high alert)

[burchett.donald]

  Yes, Simk I always tiller the last few 3-4" in hand...If you look at your first set of pictures you will see that your drawing hand is much higher on the string than your tillering rope is on the tree...Now that puts you at a different balance points than on the tree...Make sure your knock is set correctly also... The link I sent will take you into some further detail...
                                                                                                                                                                           Don

  I usually have my camera set on a ladder and use the timer...

[simk]

Many thanx Don, learnt a lot within 30 min!!!
Always had a bad feeling with this tiller wall, never really trusted it...
Pledge to install a  belt or the rounded cradle and do the final tillering in hand.
Cheers

[DC]

Like Don said when you are tillering "in hand" make sure that the nock point is right and that you're holding it where it's gonna be held. Also take a few pictures from different angles. I use a tripod at arrow height. Turn the bow upside down and take one too. Turn the camera upside down. I've read that some camera lenses are ground to shorten the bottom half. Don't know how true that is. I've grown to mistrust pictures a bit. They seem to show the bottom limb as bending too much. I don't know what it is, could be some camera lenses or just the way you're holding the bow. A mirror is good but be sure that it's not bending when you lean it against something. Even a slight bend does circus mirror things. I guess what I'm trying to say is make sure the bow needs to be scraped before you scrape it.

[simk]

Thanx Don (DC) - But am I correct to weaken the top limb with this particular bow? 

[Bayou Ben]

Yep.  If that last pic represented how you held the bow and how you draw it, then yes the top limb is too strong and needs to be weakened to balance the tiller.  I use little pieces of leather on the cradle to represent the pressure points of my bow hand and I pull the string from the exact point where the center of pressure will be with my string hand.  The bow comes out very balanced off the tree this way. 

[DC]

In the FD picture(you holding it) the heel of your hard is hard against the bow so that puts the "pressure point" a lot lower than where you have it on the tree. What happens if you move the bow to more centered on the tree? You have to move the nock point an equal amount. I does look like you should take a bit off the top but I would try a bunch of stuff first. I held a CD against the limbs and it looks like the lower limb is bending more but not by much. Changing how you hold it may show you something.

[Bayou Ben]

Not sure if you can see the leather on the cradle...My pulley pull point is set about 3/8" below the arrow rest.   

[simk]

"What happens if you move the bow to more centered on the tree?"
DC, did that and underlayd soft paper...interesting...thanx
[edit: she got an natural deflex in the upper limb, upside, outher third - further tiller advice appreciated  ]
[edit2: bayouben:with the soft underlay now it looks realistic like on the handish fd...?]

[Bayou Ben]

Where do you feel the pressure in your bow hand when you draw it back?  That’s where I would hold it on your cradle.  That looks too far over imo.  I like to set it up where my index and middle finger will be on my bow hand. 

[Bayou Ben]

I hope we or I didn’t confuse you.  You can definitely tiller by hand the last few inches and I often do.  That link Don sent has some great info. 
I’m just showing you how I set up my tree which makes the final tiller in the hand very minimal.

[upstatenybowyer]

Is it too late to remove the handle wrap and make the top limb the bottom?

The silver lining here is that you've obviously got a great eye for tillering as your first pic on the tree shows. I learned this "tiller the last few inches in hand" lesson the hard way myself. Once you have a method that works to account for this tricky little factor you'll be golden.