Side nock question

[DC]

Does a side nock have an even wall thickness all around? I was looking at Alanesq's site and it looks like it's just a cone with the same wall thickness. Does this mean I can make the tip the same all around and then cut the nock in after it's been glued. I want to do as much as I can ahead of time because I'm making this bow at a 2 day gathering and it would cut down on the time.

[meanewood]

I suppose an even thickness is best but don't make it to thin in an effort to make it look 'slim'.

The reason they went to the effort in the first place was to provide strength to the tips.

You can see by the one original, that an effort was made to trim the horn and shamfer the lip to reduce wear to the string when moving it up into place.

If your going to use the 'hanging' method, the more horn thickness you have at that point (20-25mm from the bottom), the better!

I use the self tightening loop method, which allows for a slim nock and minimal requirement to continue the slot into the wood.

The main thing is to not have the nock to low, this is where the horn is thinest!

[Del the cat]

IMO. The best way to make any horn nock is, drill it, glue it on, then shape it. I started off tying to shape 'em off the bow and it's a nightmare.
Once it's glued onto a 6' + bow you have plenty to get hold of and a lots of leverage for fine control to allow you to even use the bandsaw and belt sander to take off some of the excess material (with care).
Personally I don't like side nocks, they are less strong and secure than a modern style nock which doesn't need to cut into the wood at all. (others will doubtless dissagree  )
Del

[meanewood]

I know most people who use side nocks go for the bowyers knot on the lower limb and a large loop on the upper which basically hangs from the nock lip!

The bowyers knot is perfect on the lower limb but to use it on the upper is problematic in that it tightens up to the point that it is hard to loosen!

The hanging method just doesn't make sense to me but the running loop works great with all the stress being spread around the horn rather than on the lip.

You only need a shallow nock which acts as a locator rather than an anchor point.

If you keep the nock shallow, it makes it easier to loosen on the heavy bows.

[DC]

If your going to use the 'hanging' method, the more horn thickness you have at that point (20-25mm from the bottom), the better!

I use the self tightening loop method, which allows for a slim nock and minimal requirement to continue the slot into the wood.

Do you have a picture of these two methods? I searched but couldn't find anything.
I'll probably end up with Victorian tips because my horn isn't long enough(snicker snicker) and the local pet shops are having a tough time finding more.

[JNystrom]

Here are some of my horn nocks. Some are bad, some are better. I had three big mistakes happen on my many many horn nocks.
1) I shaped the horn too much before fitting on the bow - always cracked the horn when finally fitting them on the bow
2) I didn't leave enough horn "underneath" the nock, which made the nocks split
3) I made the groove too deep, which made the horn split also - the running loop fits well even on shallower groove

So yeah, now i manage to make quite a bit smaller nocks and still they survive. That first picture is from a ~160# elm and made of antler.
Then there is a variation of bows ranging from 100# to 160#, cow horn and antler.

Final picture shows the running loop on a 140# osage. Self nocks do just fine on these low weights  . Bottom knot is just a bowyers knot.
Meanwood is correct about keeping the nock groove shallow, i just had a quite hard time unstringing a 100# bow with running loop when the nock was too deep... What a pain.

[FilipT]

What is really the difference between side nock and just a one regular angled nock instead of two? I am looking closely at the pictures but I cannot seem to get it. Something escapes my attention but I am not sure what.

[meanewood]

Well the reason lots of people are using side nocks is because they are historically accurate to the 'Mary Rose' bows. Except X1-3 of course!

The way the bow strings were attached to the side nock is something we'll never be sure of but through experimentation, we can come to our own conclusions.

IMO, cutting 2 slots on each side of the tip and then using a loop is a simple and effective method but that's not what they were doing with those bows!

What I think strengthens my belief that a running loop was used on the upper limb and a bowyers knot on the lower limb is the fact that this method works perfectly well on both the side nocks of the Yew bows and the shamfer tip of the Elm bow X1-3!

[JNystrom]

Basically the two groove nock is a glassfiber era invention if im not wrong. Sure native americans used two grooves, but not any non-tightening loops as you see in modern bows.
So 99,5%, of found bows had sidenock or not a nock at all.

Of course, you can also make the sidenock smaller than the two sided nock. Its also really easy to string a heavy bow with the sidenock solution.

[FilipT]

What is the difference in the shape of the grooves between "standard" 2 side nocks and this "medieval" one?

[stuckinthemud]

It is the angle that they are cut into the wood at; the side nocks go straight into the wood, modern nocks are cut in at an angle.

[Del the cat]

What is the difference in the shape of the grooves between "standard" 2 side nocks and this "medieval" one?

IMO A modern horn nock shouldn't be 2 side nocks, it should be one groove on the back, with slight relief on the sides.
That way you don't need to cut into the wood at all and the strain is taken on the whole circumference of the tip, the string is also free to move through an arc from brace to full draw without chaffing on any edges.
Del