Tillering reflexed staves

[Morgan]

So, how do y’all go about tillering reflexed staves? Most of the bows I’ve made, I just heat the kinks and as much twist out but leave the Bow straight for the most part. I’ve made a few bows from naturally or heat reflexed staves and I’m pretty sure I’m tillering them wrong. I lose either a great deal or all reflex while tillering. What I have been doing is getting the stave to floor tiller and reflecting the limbs. When tillering, I get the limbs to pull evenly straight then tiller like normal if that makes sense. Something isn’t working. I’ve made many straight limbed bows with very little set, so I have to be doing something wrong here.

[Pat B]

You add extra stress to the limbs by reflexing. Your tillering will have to be more thoughtful and careful. Just getting the limbs flat stresses the limbs a lot.

[burchett.donald]

Morgan,
             The same here...If I start with say 3" of reflex and end up with 1" of reflex, I call it good...I will lose anywhere from 50% to 75% of my reflex no matter what I do going out to 26"...I'm not a pro either...Different woods and methods will vary, but you will always lose some on an unbacked bow...
                             Don

[bushboy]

I m no expert to say the least!years ago I got frustrated tillering reflexexd bows so I really worked on my floor tillering,stopped using a tiller stick.started going from floor tiller to brace and touching up from there.losing half the reflex is not the worst,just is what it is!

[George Tsoukalas]

Morgan,
I don't know what "reflecting the limbs" means.

How much set do you loose?

But when tillering a reflexed stave or any stave I seem to loose around 1.5-2 inches o of reflex.

The other point I wanted to make is that reflexed stave show high early draw weight because they store energy sooner in the draw so bowyers often think the bow is going to end up heavier than what it is.

Jawge


Is there anything else problematic for you in tillering reflexed staves besides set?

[DC]

How are you bending them? I use steam to get the general shape and then heat treat them on a caul. I still lose most of the reflex. I think if you want to keep a bunch of reflex you have to use a backing and glue the reflex in. I would like to find a tree that actually grew like that and try it. I have Douglas Maple that dries into huge reflex but most of that pulls out too.

[simson]

I m no expert to say the least!years ago I got frustrated tillering reflexexd bows so I really worked on my floor tillering,stopped using a tiller stick.started going from floor tiller to brace and touching up from there.losing half the reflex is not the worst,just is what it is!

I did quit the tiller tree too.
Working as precise as possible before bending is thing (at least I believe so).
I do all my floor tiller horizontally, hanging the tiller string on a hook in my vice and crabbing the bow with my right hand and slip the left over the limbs to feel the bending (not only seeing, esp with character staves).
This way you can handle even pronounced reflexed staves because your hand prevents the torque. Another good thing is you can feel the string tracking. Switch the bow (so that you have the upper limb once on the left and once on the right side), if the pulling shows a different behavier, the string aglinment is off. I have done bows (unbacked) with really heavy reflex.
Here is an exaple of a bow that still holds a reflex of 6½", after lot of use: http://primitive-bows.com/sister-statics-no-7374-part-2/

Hope that helps.

[Badger]

   You could write an entire chapter on dealing with reflex. The bottom line is really how much early draw weight do you have. If you have very high early draw weight you will also need to have a profile that will flatten out the curve or you will just need to lower the weight.  I cut way back on my reflex several years ago and now I pay more attention to keeping what I have rather than starting with six and finishing with two. I usually heat in about 3 1/2", when it comes out of the cawl it will likely have about 2 1/2 to 2 3/4". My goal is to finish with 2" or close to 2". Having enough wood to carry the extra reflex is important also, thats why I use my own mass theory. 22 oz is pretty typical for a 66" 50# bow. Years ago I would have finished that same bow at 18 oz or so.

   Learning how to read the bows little signals is also important. If you unstring your bow and it stays where it is after 30 minutes or so your bow may not have really taken much set it may have just pulled out the reflex you put in. On the other hand if after resting your bow regains it's profile that is an indication of true set.

    There is a simple relationship between unstrung profile of a bow and how much and what kind of reflex should be put into a bow. A bow that has huge hooks with lots of sting contact on the limbs can take advantage of a lot more reflex than a bow with just slight gentle hooks. If a bow builds draw weight at 2# per inch it can support my high early draw weight than a bow that builds at 3# per inch. Reflex right out of the handle produces poor string angles and causes stacking. I really favor more moderate designs for wood and concentrating on keeping what you have by starting off with a wide enough design to support whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.