Artificial seasoning of wood

[Badger]

   I have always wondered what would happen if I took a piece of osage for example and placed into a hot box that was running at a steady 200 degrees for maybe 1 week.
If that made a difference I would set out to refine the process, maybe lengthen or shorten the time, raise or lower the temp etc. It wouldn't be hard to test the difference it made. I notice a big difference between long seasoned wood ( 5 years or more) and fresh cut wood ( under 1 year). This might be the type of project some of our new bowyers might look into. It could be done easy enough with foot long scraps.

[Stick Bender]

I have this peace ot osage that I cut last year I want to resaw it for riser lams so I hot boxed it last month for 6-8 hrs every night for about 3 weeks at 135 F  I was to afraid to leave it running while at work unattended it hasn't changed weight for about 3 weeks now so I figure its pretty well dry , but Im wondering if shorter peaces season quicker its ruffly 29 '' x 2'' x 2'' I have osage staves hanging on the wall 20-50 % RH inside that some are still reflexing more after 2 1/2 years.

[Badger]

  I am talking specifically about seasoning as opposed to drying. I think the chemical make up of the wood continues to change a bit over extended periods.

[Stick Bender]

So your saying the higher heat 200 F seasons as opposed to drying ? I guess I didn't understand what you where saying ?

[Badger]

  Seasoning the wood is a different process than drying the wood. Seasoning allows the different chemicals in the wood to stabilize. It usually takes several years.

[Hamish]

  Sometimes even dry wood(old osage) can check if subjected to high heat for long periods of time, like a hot summer.

[DC]

So, are you thinking that "seasoning" is the evaporation of the volatile portions of the resins. Like pitch takes forever to harden on it's own and some heat speeds that up. If you did short pieces you could make them thin(you would want to anyway so you could bend them) and it wouldn't take as long. What differences would you be looking for?

[George Tsoukalas]

Steve, what differences have you noticed between dried and seasoned wood?
Remember that we have kiln dried wood to compare log staves too.
I'm not sure I've seen much of a difference if any.
Jawge

[Badger]

  Jawge, osage is the only well seasoned wood I have worked with. I have had several over the years where someone had something stored and they gave it to me. I haven't worked with enough to say positively but I think it is less prone to taking set and is a bit stiffer. I know some of my older osage bows that have been sitting around will pack on a few pounds over the years.

[PatM]

All of the evidence seems to point to the resinous compounds in Osage basically curing like a super slow cure epoxy.

[JonW]

I have two pieces of honey locust that are over 25 years old. The wood is marginal selfbow wood IMO. These two pieces of wood are so hard that I gave up trying to chase a ring on because they are so hard. Seasoned verses dry is a real thing. Doesn't add to the topic but thought I would mention it.

[George Tsoukalas]

Interesting thoughts, Steve and PatM.

Worked lots of seasoned woods both whitewoods and osage.

Just-dried woods have been BL which seems to get a bad rap in bowyer communities but which is a pretty darn good bow wood. NH BL is good stuff just-dried or seasoned. But anyway...getting tired.

I don't make enough bows these days (almost 70 y/o) to experimentally determine much of anything so you are smart in handing this one off to some young bowyers.

So to help any possible takers...what criteria would they use to evaluate any differences?
Seems like a difficult question to tackle. Keeping everything the same in 2 different pieces of wood while only varying 1 factor...namely dry vs seasoned may be a tall order. Then a sample of 1 or 2 just is not enough. How many are?

Then there is the problem of preconceived notions influencing results in that you've already said in your intro post you noticed a difference.

But I seem to recall TBB1 having some info tucked in there regarding this issue but they may have had some of the same experimental problems I mentioned.

I seem to have lots of seasoned wood LOL. No need to work the just-dried stuff.

Seems like we bowyers rely a lot on anecdotal evidence and that's ok with me...hard to do much else. Bowyering is an art. I did science all my life and kind of retired that. I'll leave that to you.

Anyway, have fun. Going to bed. I'll count staves rather than sheep.

Jawge

[Badger]

   I was thinking of this broadhead event coming up and kind of projecting into the future some what ifs. If the broadhead flight competition were to catch on and we have say a couple of hundred bows per year entered states wide at different venues the records would likely creep up to a point they became very difficult to break. When you stop to think that there are a total of 60 records to go after there are lots of opportunities to chase records in your favorite class. But getting back to the seasoning, at some point we will be looking for every edge we can find because the records will be going up pretty quickly.   I doubt we will see any new designs but I suspect we will be seeing optimized execution of designs. The quality of staves and wood being used will be a major factor in this. 

[George Tsoukalas]

But people will be using different types of broadheads.  Yes? Dried vs seasoned needs to be the only variable changed.

[Jim Davis]

Historically, using kiln-dried wood was strongly condemned for either bows or airplanes. But even kilns don't get to 200 degrees.

Then to, making wood more springy or stiffer would not necessarily improve cast, unless less mass was required to get a certain rate of return.

I have  read several academic papers on the results of high heat on wood. Don't remember the results except that it seemed there was nothing to be gained for bowyery.