glue, backings, sinew & such

[BowEd]

I'm loosing track of exactly what you mean.What I want from hide glue and sinew is a good snap back tensile strength on the back of a bow.The cologen in the hide glue with the sinew enhances or accomplishes this.
Titebond does'nt have that quality.In fact I think it lets the sinew take a set more so and not come back from it making the whole set up of titebond and sinew not work for it's money/be more mass inhibiting and generally be more sluggish.Or not come back near to the degree that hide glue and sinew does.Probably mimiking your shrinking testing of sinew alone which is a low percentage.

[willie]

I'm loosing track of exactly what you mean.What I want from hide glue and sinew is a good snap back tensile strength on the back of a bow.The cologen in the hide glue with the sinew enhances or accomplishes this.
Titebond does'nt have that quality.In fact I think it lets the sinew take a set more so and not come back from it making the whole set up of titebond and sinew not work for it's money/be more mass inhibiting and generally be more sluggish.Or not come back near to the degree that hide glue and sinew does.Probably mimiking your shrinking testing of sinew alone which is a low percentage.

Ed, I am trying to learn more about uses of other glues and fibers. why they work and why they don't. Hide glue and sinew are useful as a good comparison, possibly giving insight into the underlying principles of what makes for a good glue/fiber design. I understand that you are of the opinion that Titebond may not do what hide glue does with sinew, but others have actually tried it, and it is their experience that I am hoping to look closer at. Failures in other glue/backing experiments happen for any number of reasons, just as folks have had failures with hide glue and sinew. If you know of a bow or experiment where titebond has caused more set when applied with sinew, please share more. Sinew taking set is because it got overstrained. whether it was the glue not being able to stretch enough or an other aspect of the bow is hard to determine without looking at the entire design. hoosierf did state a preference for TB2 over TB3 when used with sinew.....it  makes me wonder why.

I like hide glue, and have no reason to try to find a substitute when it comes to putting sinew on a bow. The focus of this thread is......
 

What are your experiences with glues and backings other than sinew?

Anyone who has tried something other than sinew with hide glue is encouraged to share their experience, good or bad. There are other fibers that have a variety of working properties, and it may well be that hide glue is the best glue for them also, but I have not ruled out looking at other glues for any sinew alternatives.

[Springbuck]

WILLIE:  I see bamboo fiber on the yarn market. Perhaps suitable for bow designs that would be difficult with a bamboo slat?

DC: "I did a little investigating(not much) a while back and what I found says that the bamboo fiber is more like a rayon making process. It didn't seem to be actual fibers from the boo. I may be wrong. "

  I looked into this, too, and that's what I found.  Even read some of the patents.   Not exactly the same, but heavily dependent on chemical baths to extract the fiber.  Once I laid hand on some, it wasn't as strong as quality hemp or flax.

PatM: "Before people got into reverse bracing, sinew backing was well known to cause long term reflex acquisition."

Correct.  Sinew, and to a much lesser extent, rawhide, are very unlike any wood, bamboo, linen, or hemp backing, simply because they stretch much more.  And, sinew both induces and holds reflex.   It is known. 

 PatM:  Extracted plant fibers are actually heavy.  Also within a glue matrix they are really hard to glue so that they do not move and slip within the matrix.

   Sinew is heavier per strength, but is SO much more elastic.  I agree veg fibers don't seem to "take" to a matrix as well as sinew and hide glue.  Bows backed with linen fabric for instance seem to take a LOT of glue to me.

[BowEd]

I seem to remember long ago I wanted to raise the poundage once on a D/R KCT bow.I used 12 ply linen string.Laid down lenghtwise full length.28 strands if I recall.Think it raised the poundage 8 pounds.So every3 to 4 strands equaled about a pound of draw weight.I used smoothon epoxy for glue.Made the back almost unbreakable but no resilience of returning reflex of course.It's still shooting to this day.

[Comalforge]

There is another thread running currently which mentions sisal as a backing - has anyone posting here used that material?  It's cheap and easy to find.

[willie]

Ed, I am not familiar with the consistiency of smooth-on. Is it the kind of glue that you would expect full penetration into something like twine.

that seems like quite a bit of twine to add.  How heavy is the draw weight on that bow? and did the addition of the linen twine create more set?