Post For Tim Baker ( Sinew)

[Aksel]

50 points to the first person to identify that black material beside the bamboo.

Salty Liquorice?

[sleek]

I have seen baleen used as backing, but does it work as a belly?

[Bob Barnes]

Dean Torges made a bow with a baleen belly...I think JD Jones has it now.

[PatM]

The little Rimankyu bows made by the Japanese are all baleen.

[willie]

you might be interested in a range of weights

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http://bjornhideglue.com/product-category/regular-clarity/

The molecular weight of hide glue has a wide range from 20,000 – 250,000. The higher the gel strength, the higher the molecular weight.

[PatM]

How many layers of TP, Tim?

[sleek]

you might be interested in a range of weights

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http://bjornhideglue.com/hide-glue-info/

The molecular weight of hide glue has a wide range from 20,000 – 250,000. The higher the gel strength, the higher the molecular weight.

Now that is fascinating. How do you create a glue with a higher weight?

[willie]

buy it that way, i think it different weights are sort of like distillation, it comes off the top in different "pours" as it the hide or whatever is cooked down.


see if this attachment will open

[willie]

Your hide glue belly is made of cologen though.Horn is keratine.Be interesting to see how much compression it will take though.

Ed, I often add Colloidal silica to my glue to make it harder. maybe there is a natural equivalent or something similar?

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https://www.westsystem.com/406-colloidal-silica/
maybe the guy that was saving his toenail clippings for a bow belly is still around

[sleek]

Your hide glue belly is made of cologen though.Horn is keratine.Be interesting to see how much compression it will take though.

Ed, I often add Colloidal silica to my glue to make it harder. maybe there is a natural equivalent or something similar?

Code: [Select]

https://www.westsystem.com/406-colloidal-silica/
maybe the guy that was saving his toenail clippings for a bow belly is still around

Ew. But, interesting, but ew.

Can human hair be bound with hide glue in such a way as to make a bow belly? My hair is down to my butt. Plenty enough to do that with if I have reasin yo believe it can be done. I will do it.

[sleek]

Ack there i go again, derailing the thread. Gonna start another

[Tim Baker]

BowEd:

Yes, it's whale baleen. You win the 50 points, duly recorded. They're fully transferable and can be traded with other point holders or used to make purchases in the paleo economy, paleo bitcoin. Just kidding, but not a bad idea.

sleek:

" I have seen baleen used as backing, but does it work as a belly?

Yes.  As belly material it stand about half way between horn and bow wood itself. The Asiatic-style bow on page 87 of TBB-1 used baleen on the belly. 

PatM:

The glue belly in the photo on the previous page was brushed on. Maybe ten coats. Three layers of TP/glue yields the same thickness, and much more uniformly. It's best to use cheap, thin, almost see-through versions, and to peel its two layers apart, each layer more air than fiber.

Sleek:

Knox Gelatin, and similar, is surprisingly high-quality glue, with a bloom or gel strength of about 300, just about the highest of any glue.

[Tim Baker]

Some hide glue info:

The higher the gram strength of hide glue the quicker it gels, often too quickly. One solution is to keep the work, sinew and air at high temperature. Another is to dilute the glue.

Hide glue you make yourself, from sinew scraps or hide scrapings will typically yield about 180 gram strength glue, gels slower for longer working time, and is stronger than needed for about any imaginable need.

Gelatin glue is about 350 gram strength.
How to mix it: 
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/TipsTricks/KitchenGlue/kitchenglue.html
Three times water weight to dry glue weight is difficult to mix. Six times is easier.

The lower the water content the quicker a sinewed back or such will dry.

Dry hide glue is about 1.3 specific gravity, twice as heavy as many bow woods.

Tensile strength up to 10,000-plus per square inch.

The lower the moisture content the higher the tensile strength, and vice versa

Can be stretch 5% to 10% of length.

[Aaron H]

Excellent info Tim, thank you

[BowEd]

+1.Composites have always fascinated me.They are creatures of a different type when it comes to bows.