I violated thin ringed E. ash sapling - fail or not? PICTURES ADDED

[FilipT]

I have about 4 - 5" ash sapling that I debarked just now and violated rings at some places. Now why did that happen, because I never violate rings? It is because that sapling has over 30 rings! I couldn't believe that each ring is about 1 mm thick (or even less) and it was impossible not to violate them when I debarked the sapling.

Question is am I dealing with already a failed bow or not? It is impossible to chase the ring because of sheer number of rings and how thin they are.

[okie64]

Unless you are really short on bow wood i would say chunk it and find another stave. Ash is one of those woods that usually has a high percentage of early growth meaning it’s pretty crappy bow wood to begin with.

[FilipT]

Ash is one of those woods that usually has a high percentage of early growth meaning it’s pretty crappy bow wood to begin with.

Really? I never heard that before. Btw, I tried another one and the same thing happened. It seems I wouldn't be able to use ANY ash I collected last year. And I didn't get anything else because of bad weather whole autumn.

[Pat B]

Filip, adding a simple backing can help keep splinters down due to the violations. Silk(neck tie from thrift shop), linen(shirt, blouse also from thrift shop) and brown butcher or grocery bag paper are good examples of simple backings. Ash has been used for bows for many years so it must be OK. I've only used it a few times over the years. Don't give up before you try a simple backing.

[timmyd]

I've never worked ash yet but I bebarked a bunch here recently so I will be and some I did the same thing you did. I have worked hickory a lot though with this same issue and as long as it's not a gouge I would sand it real good so the area blends in as good as  you can get it and you should be fine. part of building bows is seeing what you can get away with. go for it and let me know how it turns out.

[FilipT]

For two hours after I posted this thread I have been working on the bow and here is what I did and what I decided.

I drew the layout and removed the wood from the sides and got up the lines. Tomorrow I will mark initial rough estimate thickness and handle depth and will remove the wood from belly. After I clear everything I will carefully work on the back. The plan is to what @timmyd did, or even get to the one ring if I can. So bunch of sanding and scraping and no draw knife!

When I looked again at the back, I think the back is not really too much violated but one bump concerns me a bit. This is actually a knot that has two rings violated, again because they were so thin. I will carefully sand and scrape that knot and blend it to the rest of the back of bow. After that bow will go for a bit final drying as it is still wet a bit and will hopefully be ready for tiller.
Of course I will make a thread with finished bow if it survives!

[George Tsoukalas]

Back it with silk, linen or burlap as Pat said.
Info my site.
Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com

[Strichev]

Can you post a picture of the violations? Personally I'd say you might be able to get away with light violations if you keep the bow's weight down. I'm a believer in ash and I hope that my religious devotion to it is going to pay off - I've been debarking and roughing out some 30+ ash staves this whole autumn and winter. It would be outrageous if it really is a crappy wood. 

[Marc St Louis]

I wouldn't call Ash crappy but it's not the best.  It will chysal if it's strained too much.

[FilipT]

Of course it is not the crappy wood, au contraire. I will put tomorrow picture of cross section of one of the other saplings as I already shaped this one into rough dimensions.

[Springbuck]

 "Ash is one of those woods that usually has a high percentage of early growth meaning it’s pretty crappy bow wood to begin with."   I cannot agree with this, but working with ANY wood means choosing design to suit the wood, and ash, like maple, elm, hazel, etc.  will do best with a wide, flat limb.  I have made many bows with small nicks or shaves on the back, but others failed. too.

So many small, close growth rings does sound unusual for ash.  Young ash usually has thick, solid summer growth, even if it has a lot of early growth, too.    So, if all the rings are thin, both early and late, that only means you make the bow LONGER, wider, or lower draw weight than you would otherwise.

I agree, you either take it down one ring using only a scraper, or back it like Jawge and Pat said.

[Jim Davis]

Please do show us the violations. Their closeness to the edge can be a factor.

[FilipT]

Just to clarify, I am building around 50-55# flatbow so not a warbow, even though ash makes superb warbows.

[FilipT]

Here is picture of rings on other piece of ash, from the same tree. Arrow points to the direction where I put back of the bow.

[Aksel]

I would decrown the whole back. probably safest option .