Arrow making process - questions

[FilipT]

This thread delivers knowledge with each post. I didn't even expect to learn so much in just a day, considering that this part of forum doesn't have too much activity lately!

@everybody
I heard of bareshafting and I first saw it on Grey Archer youtube channel but I never attempted it before. Of course I will do that from now on, but first I am still waiting for some things to arrive from ebay.

@bjorgg
That makes sense. Maybe I will even get lucky and have to do too much before I realize what suits my bow haha.

@TSA
Thanks for this link. The bow I will use will be 50#, 66" ntn selfbow without arrowshelf. Arrow will pass 1" above the center of bow. Distance between pass and middle of bow is probably 1/2". Not sure though. I will probably even flip the tips.

Notice how I talk in future tense. I mainly used before bows of various lengths and draw weights but currently I am making that one specific bow to end them all LOL. I want it to be my main one through which I expect to put thousands of arrows. For that one I want arrows tuned as closely as possible.

P.S.
Is dynamic spine calculator in excel in fact a substitute for the bareshafting?

[TSA]

WELL, yer just a big fat liar!!!!
building just one bow to end them all
'fraid to tell you my friend, yer just like us, an addict- theres no such thing as just one bow


you are most welcome.
 i love this forum, greatest family of folk out there.
 i am also on a few sailboat forums- you wanna see a mess- join a sailboat forum!

[bjrogg]

Wayne I was thinking the same thing. Just one bow that's crazy.lol. I think he's trying to say just one main bow that he's wanting to get set up to be his main shooter. I remember when I started making bows and just had one and broke it. I've been making them two at a time ever since. Nothing worse then no bow.lol
Bjrogg

[FilipT]

Lol no, I don't plan to stop building bows ever. bjrogg understood correctly, it is supposed to be my main shooting bow, the one that I will try to really hone on my skills. Btw, there is a worse than having no bow. It is having no wood at the shed. I am almost now at that stage because last autumn didn't allow me to collect much wood, bad weather and lots of work regarding college stopped me.

TSA, is it possible to get a bigger picture, I barely see anything there?

[TSA]

ok, i will see what i can do

[TSA]

i have been meaning to redo that spine chart for the longest time.
thanks for the kick in the seat of the pants.
i need to re-do it in word, so that i can save it as a picture- and lose the excel watermark- also a bit fuzzy.
sorry i am a bit of a techno-peasant when it comes to 'puters 
so here goes...

[FilipT]

Things are more visible now. So what I see here is that I need for example static spine 45 - 50 for 50# at 28" bow. But since I want my arrow to be lets say 30", than I would need as a reference 50 - 55 spine, am I right?

[archeryrob]

Do you have a 30" draw or do you just want 30" arrows? You need to add 5# in spine to the arrow for every inch you increase in length and for every 25 grains of point weight over 125 grains. so if you add 2" you need to got to 55-60. That is a rule of thumb that gets you close. You still need to bare shaft shoot the arrows to test them to your bow. I shoot my short bow at 55# and 26" and the chart is pretty close to what it likes in bare shafting. I normally end up with all my arrows carrying a 42# spine.

I'd be interested in how the Beech holds up as its a nice hardwood. I made my fleshing beam out of a rough sawn piece of it and love the look of the wood also. In my experience I have had a much better time with hardwoods than softwoods. Hardwood don't break easy and they don't seem to warp on my even without finish, but softwood always have for me.

[FilipT]

No, I want 30" arrows as it is easier when points stick out a little at full draw instead of them being in the same line as back of the bow. Beech dowels are a good arrow choice as beech was mentioned in old book Toxophilus as one of the choices for warbow arrows. Now if you can use it for such heavy bows, than you can surely use it for lower weight ones.

[TSA]

Filip, the way that chart works , is say for a 28" actual draw, it has allowed for the arrows to be 29" to B.O.P.
so if you want a 30" arrow- calculate as for a 29" draw. so yes you did read it right. but my inclination , if i have an option, is to always err on the stiffer side- easier to keep the shafts a bit longer.
like my granny always said " its easier to cut a piece off, than to cut a piece on." 
i do think beech will make a great arrow- hardwoods make excellent shafts, but like all shafting, every species has great points and compromises.
Rob is absolutely correct you need to addthe #5 for every extra inch and for the extra point weight, and subtract #5 if reducing either.
i do think Rob, that if you had softwood shafts warp on you, and i am talking out of turn here, but they might not have been a very high quality shaft with not so good grain integrity.
i have had some people tell me the same about birch shafts- then when i see the actual shafts, its quite obvious why they were having problems.
 but i do agree, that the hardwoods make for a very tough, good quality shaft, and if of high quality will be extremely durable and be great thumpers!

[FilipT]

We will see next month how that all looks like in practice. I will post here my progress.

[willie]

Wayne, have you seen any charts for actual arrow lengths, rather than "draw length"?
a lot of new guys scratch their head when they realize that there are multiple ways to measure draw length.

[TSA]

that's a very good point Willie, i know i struggled with the whole measuring system for the longest time, as my argument was always taht with a heavier , thicker riser of say a recurve, vs a slim light riser of an elb- the same person using them would get two different measurements. it really frustrated me, due to its inaccuracy.
there is some std, however, where you measure to the deepest part of the grip and i believe add 3/4" .
now i dont do that, sadly i have to say, i just succumbed to mass peer pressure- after arguing my point so long, i just relented and measure to the back of the bow- i guess we have to pick our battles- maybe  this is my "mellow" stage of my life 

but back to your point, these charts, in my opinion, are the very best, ( i did not draw the originals) as it actually does give you an arrow length. say for a 28" draw, it actually allows for the arrow being 29", so for argument's sake, if you drew 26.5" but liked a 29" arrow- you would simply use the 28" draw ( which is also the  29" arrow)  measurement.
 so it seems to kill both birds with the same judo!

so if a beginner, not trying to ascertain their draw length, they could draw an arrow back, , figure out there preferred arrow length, and then work their spine out from there.
 in fact, just thinking about it, you have inspired me to edit those charts, and actually add an arrow length column in, next to the draw length column.

 thanks for the inspiration- that will simplify things greatly!

[FilipT]

If you have arrow longer than 28", I just add 5# to each inch over?

[Knoll]

As I read the chart details, add 5# for each inch beyond 29" arrow length or 28" draw length.