Author Topic: Why you have to remove the sapwood  (Read 10957 times)

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Offline Eric Krewson

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Why you have to remove the sapwood
« on: March 22, 2018, 11:11:06 am »
A lot of guys just starting out ask how to treat osage once they cut it. I thought I would give an example on what not to do which is take the bark off and leave the sapwood. Even well sealed the sapwood will often check, in this case 4 coats of shellac didn't keep this osage sapwood from checking. When sapwood checks it often caries the check deeply into the heartwood. There are 5 checks on this piece of osage the went into the heartwood


Offline Jim Davis

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 11:34:00 am »
And, once a check opens, its edges are not sealed and drying and shrinking occur rapidly with almost all the moisture loss in the crack.

The sapwood is harder to seal, because it has much more moisture in it than does the heart wood.

I have found though, that if the wood is split into stave size, there is much less tendency to check.

Good useful post Eric
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2018, 12:17:45 pm »
Yup, I gotta say this is some pretty useful advice!  In the bad old days, I used to get staves from a dealer with bark and sapwood still on.  More than once the wood was checked so deeply that it was chucked out.  Kinda hurts to see a hundred bucks wasted like that!
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Offline sleek

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 01:07:38 pm »
I have to counter this with what I have observed. If you split a stave into individual bow sizes, the ability for a stave to check is almost nil. The narrower a stave is, the less it can split. As it dries and shrinks, it uses its own width as leverage to split. Reduce width, recuce leverage, reduce checks. I never remove sapwood anymore and have learned this.
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 01:47:33 pm »
I will counter what you countered with, Kevin. I split up four big logs into bow size staves and ruined every one with checks, all of them. That's the only batch I've ruined and it wont happen again.   
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Offline Springbuck

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 02:39:20 pm »
JW_Halverson:   In the bad old days, I used to get staves from a dealer with bark and sapwood still on.  More than once the wood was checked so deeply that it was chucked out.

REALLY?  Bark on, even.  That amazes me.

That is a nice big piece of wood, too, Eric, and a good lesson.

I don't harvest my own osage, but years ago I did cut down a 14" diameter black locust, in Utah, in August, at just after noon; 98 degrees, 25% humidity, and a slight breeze.  I was on a tree job and didn't know better then, so I split it six ways or something, took the bark off, and set it aside to take home. 

I came back literally less than an hour later and the sapwood was checking all over the place.  I saved it, but I had to hose it down, cover it in the shade with a tarp, and periodically come back and hose it some more.

 If it had been a white wood, those were already big enough checks to have completely ruined it.

Offline sleek

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 03:47:45 pm »
I will counter what you countered with, Kevin. I split up four big logs into bow size staves and ruined every one with checks, all of them. That's the only batch I've ruined and it wont happen again.

I wonder why there is a difference?
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

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Offline bentstick54

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2018, 05:22:27 pm »
I think some difference could be when the tree is cut. I’ve cut Osage in summer when it is hot out and had water running out the ends before it was on the ground.
I’ve cut some in winter and had several days to work with before I could get it sealed.
There is less moisture in the tree in the winter, plus the cooler weather lets it leave the tree slower.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2018, 06:08:37 pm »
There will be exceptions depending on where you live. I still cringe when I think of this; after I cut the most perfect osage tree on the planet I split it down into staves, stripped the bark off and put it in an outside garage that was closed up, I had shellacked the staves backs. A month later I looked at the staves and could have dropped a dime out of sight into the checks that went from back to belly.

This was around 20 years ago, I bought Deans book "Hunting the Osage Bow", followed his osage cutting advice and never lost another stave until I got lazy.  About 10 years ago I cut the osage in the picture above, shellacked it and put in the somewhat damp crawlspace under my house, it still checked, lesson learned.

Offline Hamish

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2018, 06:13:18 pm »
That is quite a wide quarter split, such a piece begs to crack in drying, even when sealed. You can still probably get 3 useable English longbow staves, or 1 longbow and a very wide flatbow  out of it. You would need to glue and clamp that shallow split though.

I have found it necessary to take the  sapwood off osage cut in summer. Not just because it attracts bugs or splits, but it can go moldy, or the sugars start to ferment. I'm not sure which it is, but it goes greyish and gives off a vinegary smell. I haven't found it
to stop you from making a bow out of it, just cosmetic, like a bluestain in other sappy timbers like ash.

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 06:14:50 pm »
Osage doesn't play by a strict set of rules.  I've had them check like Eric's.  I've also had them check really bad with the bark left on them.  I've had some that I didn't seal at all and they never checked.  I think the type of grain plays a part in it.  If it's straight grained and easily splits into staves I think it has a greater chance to check if not sealed properly.  I have some osage that almost refuses to be split.  I tried busting some 6" long pieces with a hatchet yesterday for firewood.  It wouldn't budge.  Even when hit really hard with a hatchet.  I gave up and threw it in the campfire pile.  I broke my started wedge trying to split that same stuff into staves.  I've noticed that if you run into a problem with one stave, the rest from that tree will likely be the same way.  I cut one tree that was very dark red and super hard wood.  Every single stave developed side checks. The ends and backs were fine.     

From my experience, the absolute best way to treat osage is to cut it this time of year, seal the ends, split it into chunks as soon as you can so the moisture has a place to escape besides the ends, split the chunks down into staves, remove the bark and sapwood, seal the backs and ends at least 2 times, store them in a place that doesn't get too hot or direct sunlight.  This will reduce the possibility of checks and bug damage.  They also take up less room and are cleaner to store and move around. 

I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline Jim Davis

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 06:25:44 pm »
I like to seal with a thick sloppy coat of latex. I use what I have or can get cheap. Don't pass up an old partial can of latex at a yard sale.

I also make sure to get the staves out of the sun and wind. I usually leave the bark on and spray with malthion or Sevin.
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2018, 07:18:35 pm »
OO has had more experience with Osage than anyone I know and if anyone has deal with more osage than him I'd like to know.
I have and would go with his advice on osage cutting and stave seasoning....
DBar
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking

Offline BowEd

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2018, 07:27:05 pm »
I'm one to always make staves immediately/seal the ends[I like shellack]/ pull the bark and sapwood off/chase a ring/seal the back[I like shellack]/then hopefully during a period of mild cool weather[60 degrees or less] for a few weeks or more inside a shed/then I have little worries the stave will check then with up coming hotter weather.In short in the beginning cooler weather to slowly release the moisture which coincides with harvesting them in the fall or winter or early spring the best time that I like.I've had bad luck with cracks myself leaving the sapwood on to dry.
I do like the looks of a sapwood backed osage though done by others.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: Why you have to remove the sapwood
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2018, 08:09:10 pm »
d, I like your approach....and I do like the looks of a sapwood backed osage bow .... but the "stave" has to tell you what type of bow "it" wants to be..... and I'm sure you understand what I'm saying......but if I'm looking for a bow with a sapwood back I will take it down to about a 1/4" of sapwood when green and bring the belly to bow dimensions.....seal the ends and back real well with shellack or polly and put it indoors for about a year.  Don't seal the belly it will give the moisture a place to escape.....
DBar
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking