Juniper seasoning on the tree

[Utahknapper]

Hey y'all, new to the forum. I'm a flintknapper and an amateur primitive bowyer. I've searched through the Juniper threads past, but haven't quite found what I'm looking for. I'm almost finished with a soon-to-be rawhide-backed Juniper bow, and I've got the hankering to do a sinew-backed Juniper flatbow this coming year. I have been reading about growth-arrestment cuts on Juniper staves by Great Basin people, and want to try this "season on the tree" thing. My question is, does anyone have any practical experience with this? Or at least the knowledge of how long to let the stave season on the trunk? Thanks in advance,

Gary

[gfugal]

Is that where you get the bow from the trunk/root/branch, without killing the tree? I think I saw something about that in a book I read once about bowmaking, can't remember which one. I've never tried it.
 

[Utahknapper]

Is that where you get the bow from the trunk/root/branch, without killing the tree? I think I saw something about that in a book I read once about bowmaking, can't remember which one. I've never tried it.

Yes, it is. It was published in a paper back in the 80s. I found it online, read through it, and now I wanna try it.

[jeffp51]

read the same paper, but I don't remember where.  Where do you live in Utah?  I am in Pleasant grove.

[loefflerchuck]

I'm Park City. I have always liked the idea of not killing the rare perfect juniper that yields perfect knot free staves. I tried this summer. Used a hand saw to cut a v with a flat bottom  on top. To make double sure peeled the bark down to make sure the bottom v was in line. I only waited 3 months and instead of a large pry stick like the great basin tribes, I used 2 axes, a sledge and a wedge to try and pry it. My vv's were 58" apart but trying to pry from the top the stave split up to the surface after 26". My next try I'll try waiting a year. If I can figure this out I'll be pulling a stave off every good tree on a side of a mountain and knowing I can always come back for more and never feel remorse for cutting such a perfect tree.

[PatM]

Would it maybe work better to drive a slim wedge in the middle first and work up and down from there?  That seems to work best for splitting a sapling reliably.

[willie]

can you post a link for the article? I had it once and lost it, if it is the same one.
thanks

[Limbit]

This is a useful article researching native American use of desert juniper to take staves over the course of multiple generations. Point is, it doesn't hurt the tree in the long-term and is totally sustainable. It seems like they let it season on the tree for aorund a year. Good read. https://escholarship.org/content/qt4v5249w9/qt4v5249w9.pdf

[E. Jensen]

Out your guys' way they're trying to cut all the junipers down.  Might get with the state forestry dept and see where their contractor, nice guy, is cutting.  They're just chipping it all up anyways.  Careful though, state forester is a real piece of work.

[Utahknapper]

read the same paper, but I don't remember where.  Where do you live in Utah?  I am in Pleasant grove.

I live in Dugway.

[Utahknapper]

I'm Park City. I have always liked the idea of not killing the rare perfect juniper that yields perfect knot free staves. I tried this summer. Used a hand saw to cut a v with a flat bottom  on top. To make double sure peeled the bark down to make sure the bottom v was in line. I only waited 3 months and instead of a large pry stick like the great basin tribes, I used 2 axes, a sledge and a wedge to try and pry it. My vv's were 58" apart but trying to pry from the top the stave split up to the surface after 26". My next try I'll try waiting a year. If I can figure this out I'll be pulling a stave off every good tree on a side of a mountain and knowing I can always come back for more and never feel remorse for cutting such a perfect tree.

I’m gonna go out tomorrow and make a couple of cuts, and maybe harvest a couple branch staves. The plan is to let it slowly season over winter and spring, then harvest in either summer or fall.

[Utahknapper]

Out your guys' way they're trying to cut all the junipers down.  Might get with the state forestry dept and see where their contractor, nice guy, is cutting.  They're just chipping it all up anyways.  Careful though, state forester is a real piece of work.

Yeah they’ve killed a bunch out my way, but there are still thousands. Hopefully I’ll find some straight-grained trunks!

[Utahknapper]

This is a useful article researching native American use of desert juniper to take staves over the course of multiple generations. Point is, it doesn't hurt the tree in the long-term and is totally sustainable. It seems like they let it season on the tree for aorund a year. Good read. https://escholarship.org/content/qt4v5249w9/qt4v5249w9.pdf

That’s exactly the paper I read. Thanks for posting.

[willie]

Thanks for posting that link Limbit. I do not think that is the paper I was remembering, but it certainly is a good one.
If any one has a link to a similar paper that showed  locations for stave that were taken from limbs, it would be appreciated.
if I remember correctly, there was some different opinions as to whether the top or underside of the limb was better.

[Utahknapper]

Thanks for posting that link Limbit. I do not think that is the paper I was remembering, but it certainly is a good one.
If any one has a link to a similar paper that showed  locations for stave that were taken from limbs, it would be appreciated.
if I remember correctly, there was some different opinions as to whether the top or underside of the limb was better.

I had read that the upper side of the limb was better, as the heartwood would be closer to the top, and the underside was compression wood, and there fore inferior. I picked that up from “Yahi Archery” by Saxton Pope.