Author Topic: Explosive failure!  (Read 4505 times)

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Offline Morgan

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 08:58:21 pm »
Julian, I sent you a PM.

Offline willie

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2017, 12:14:09 am »
Quote
All bows should be strained the same, regardless of design

technically this is correct, but there are times that you might not want to build a bow the same level of strain. for instance if your bowwood is from boards where you have no control over the harvest and care of the stave, then you might choose to overbuild a bow some so you do not have so many failures. ultimately there is something to be said for working with staves that you harvest yourself. you can pick a healthy tree and take care of and season to your own specs.
nice looking work you have shown recently, looking forward to seeing more.

Offline joachimM

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2017, 03:31:05 am »

[/quote]

The bow was already backed with linen.
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Seems that for these spotted gum boards you need a backing that can take most of the tension.
The sisal hide glue combo works fine for me.
 

Offline Julian

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 05:23:53 am »
Seems that for these spotted gum boards you need a backing that can take most of the tension.
The sisal hide glue combo works fine for me.

I'll try it, next time. Is Sisal the same as flax fibre?

Offline joachimM

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 08:53:50 am »
Nope, flax is the raw material linen is made from (from the flax plant Linum usitatissimum).
Sisal is from a species of agave (Agave sisalana, surprise surprise).

They have rather different properties. As far as my research data and experience go, flax is extremely strong, and stacks enormously beyond 1% stretch.
If your flax backing is too thick, it will force the underlying wood entirely into compression. When you then draw the bow, the tiniest flaw in the belly (a hint of a hinge) may cause such a crushing of the wood that a true hinge quickly forms and is immediately exacerbated in a chain reaction leading to a tension failure of the flax. I've experimented with flax backings and had explosive bow breaks because of that.

Sisal is much cruder (thicker fibers), but stretches more easily and doesn't stack like flax. It can stretch at least 2% and has a much lower modulus of elasticity than flax (it is more elastic, requiring less force to stretch), more like strong wood species. Basically, it behaves like a stretchy bamboo backing, but one which you can tiller also on its back: when you applied too much of it, you can sand it down (moderately!). When you put too little on it, you can always add a bit.

Offline Hamish

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 05:56:16 pm »
You have developed the skills to make a decent bow, all you need  is some better wood. You'll be surprised at how much easier it is to get a durable, high performance bow with appropriate timber. 
This is one of the reasons I don't like eucalypts for bows. Yes a bow can be made out of the stuff, but its usually luck as much as skill or design, as the timber can be so fickle in what it will give you.
 Better board selection,  backing, a much wider working limb than the timber density suggests, will increase your chances of success though. Limbs 2" and even up to 3" wide are not uncommon on successful eucalypt bows, usually pyramid or paddle bows with molle' tips.
Keep at it dude, you are doing really good with the materials you are using, but they are hamstringing your results for a durable bow. Its just not an issue when you use a decent timber.

Offline kbear

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2017, 02:02:25 am »
I have made a bunch of bows from Aussie timbers. Spotted gum has been one of the better ones, however I have had failures. Still got a couple nice shooters though.......

Have a google for a place in Melbourne that sells American Hardwoods (wink wink).... You might find a place in Burwood where you could get some Red Oak, Rock Maple, White Oak, Black Walnut, Cherry etc.......

Rounding the edges of your back will go a long way in preventing splinters and breakages also. Eliminate ALL sharp edges. About the radius of a pencil is fine.

I am backing all of my bows now. Black Walnut veneer on a trapped white-wood bow looks great, and is stretchy enough to not break, but is probably more cosmetic than anything. Still, put 200 arrows through a Queensland Silver Ash bow a couple weeks back. No breaky.

Flax fiber is good also, but be careful to not overpower and crush your bellies. Once again, trapping is the key, I believe.

Got some sinew on the way; really looking forward to backing a bow with sinew. Feels kinda like a bowyers milestone.

Have not been able to find a source for rawhide in country unfortunately........




Offline Hamish

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2017, 02:47:04 am »
Hi Korey, Tandy leather sells strips of rawhide 1&3/4" wide x 42". They are a bit thick and very expensive but they would work for a backing. Birdsall leather also sometimes has kangaroo, deer and goat rawhide which is a bit thinner, and more suitable( not on their website so you might have to email/phone). Both these stores are in Sydney, but do mail/web orders.

Offline DC

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2017, 11:48:22 am »
I was watching a show about animal motion. They said that kangaroo sinew is extra stretchy. I'm not sure if that would be good or bad. Sure works for the 'roo.

Offline kbear

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2017, 01:58:51 pm »
Hi Korey, Tandy leather sells strips of rawhide 1&3/4" wide x 42". They are a bit thick and very expensive but they would work for a backing. Birdsall leather also sometimes has kangaroo, deer and goat rawhide which is a bit thinner, and more suitable( not on their website so you might have to email/phone). Both these stores are in Sydney, but do mail/web orders.

Hamish, many thanks! I am not even sure my advice to Julian will pay off, but is worth a shot. Gonna check out Birdsall for some roo. Cheers

Offline Hamish

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Re: Explosive failure!
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 04:42:19 pm »
Nothing wrong with any of  your advice Korey. I would definitely check out that American Hardwoods joint if I lived near Melbourne, they have hickory boards...awesome!