Texas deer hunt photos and thoughts on bow length,,,

[bradsmith2010]

what ever your draw is and double that,,leave it wide,,,d bow,, or slightly bend in handle kinda like Ishi,, the d bow or bend in handle bow will allow for a bit shorter bow,,with no backing,, I have seen exceptions, but that design lends itself to a shorter bow,,

[Morgan]

Brad, I have read that you cannot narrow the handle on a D bow, could you narrow it on a bow that bends only slightly in the handle? The D bow that I have is 1 1/4" for most of the length. Hasn't taken any real set but it is long. Any wider, and it'd be very uncomfortable for me. That narrow on a shorter bow would be bad news I think. My favorite bow's limbs is 1 5/8 narrows to around 1 1/4 at the grip and is fairly shallow at the grip. I think it flexes just a very little bit at the handle, I can feel it but can't see it. It has taken zero set after several hundred shots. Both are hackberry. I think a short hackberry with 1 3/4" limbs would survive the stress if it bent a little in the grip, but it'd have to be narrowed down for me. I'm sorry if this is hijacking your thread.

[StickMark]

Bradsmith,

Awesome to get this conversation with someone who trained with B. Ferguson.  I noticed today that w/out my Redwing recurve, my draw length returns to about 26".  He mentions this will occur.  I am liking this fact, because I am with you in that shorter bows can yield shot opportunities with whitetail.  Looking over Steve Alley and J. Hamm's book, Encyclopedia of N.A bows, arrows and quivers, I see numerous examples that would easily fit my draw range. 

Today, I shot my rigid handle shorty at 23.5", but prefer my bendy handles at 26".  Morgan, my bendy handles take set, but are 1 and 3/8 in the handle, just barely.  At 26", draw weights are from 37 to 44 lbs.   

I like to get close, utilizing concealment.  The shorter bows are back in fashion with this hunter. 

[Orrum]

Great thread and pics, thanks for sharing!

[bradsmith2010]

Morgan ,, yes you can narrow the handle and have it bend slightly, one of the best examples of this is a bow called 3 toes,, it has a recent thread,, it was actually bending more than twice the draw,, and holdinb reflex and no backing,, you are not hijacking ,, that is what the thread is about,, finding a shorter bow that is accuarate and comfortable to shoot,, either d bow or narrow handle wide bow that bends in handle would work,,,  you have to decide what you want, I would make both ,,,, and shoot the one that hits best for me,,,

  Sickmark, the 26 inch draw is about like Ishi,, and he had bows say 54 inches,, that would be a very reasonable lengh,,,not too much finger pinch,, 26 is a nice effecient power stroke,, it would make a nice shootier,, check out  Ishis bows in Volume 4,,they say he varied his draw depending on what and how far he was shooting,,

[jeffhalfrack]

Nice talk here ,! ,,,Halfeye used to talk about short bendy handle bows a lot ,, I need to work a trade for a good short bendy  thanks jeffw

[nclonghunter]

Interesting thread here....

I am very weak of knowledge in this field even though I have shot bows my whole life. From what I have read I am curious if a bow drawing 23 inches at 50# would shoot as fast as a bow drawing 28 inches at 50#. The arrow if drawn to the broadhead to insure it is getting a full draw at each shot. Aside from accuracy and the need to practice both bows should be delivering the arrows at the same speed??? How about a 15 inch arrow if the bow is tillered to 50# at 15 inches, would it deliver an arrow equally deadly as one 28 inches. What is a too short of an arrow or perhaps better asked, what is too short of a draw since the arrow could be 30 inches long and it only drawn 15 inches to 50#. I think some of the jungle bows for shooting monkeys are drawn short but use extremely long arrows.

Another interesting perspective is shooting a bow that is held directly in front of you and drawing to your face is much shorter that holding the bow to your left and drawing to your face. You can achieve an anchor with a shorter draw shooting straight in front. I think Ishi shot in that method.

Sorry if this is rambling or common knowledge

[GlisGlis]

interesting thread for sure
I think i'm gonna make a bendy handle with a reduced width only on the arrow  side
kinda a minimal arrow pass with only the limited wood support to avoid breaking and twisting

[bradsmith2010]

     if the bow is designed to the 23 inch draw,, it will shoot close to a bow drawn 28,,, the 28 inch bow would have to be much longer,, that would be the trade off for a few fps.. the deer would never notice,, like I said earlier,, if you wanted to match the 28 inch draw you might have to go up a bit in poundage,, but for example,, lets say you have 50# self bow that shoots a 500 grain arrow 150 fps,, it follows the string a bit,, it would be very possible to have a bow drawing 50 @ 23 inches shooting  500 grain arrow 160 fps,,, shooting harder than the 28 inch draw bow,, lots of variables,,,
    once you get shorter than 20 inch draw,, I find the arrow speed relative to draw weight goes down,, too much for me,, 
    probably not going to hit an anchor with the short draw bow,,, 

    the South American bows and arrows are probably designed to suite the materials they have there and humid conditions,,,

[bradsmith2010]

https://youtu.be/2ltS10D3st0

this is me shooting a short osage bow,, at a rolled up piece of paper,, I didnt make the shot,, but you can see the short bow is plenty accurate,,
   I am shooting sitting down, cause I was getting ready for a turkey hunt where I knew I would be sitting on a bucket,, I went on that hunt,, and got a shot with that bow,, and just blew it bad,, well I gonna try agin this coming april,,,i wanted to add,, its more about the shooter,, not the bow,,

[StickMark]

Brad,

Have roughed out an Ishi style bow these last few days, as per your suggestion.  It is time to make that style.  the bow is hickory, with "ok" ratio of early to late growth.  In your experience, can a bow like that handle draw weights around 56-64?  I will back it with either deer rawhide or linen cloth (most likely rawhide.  The backing is to protect the bow from the angular rocks that are Arizona's soil. I have been  known to low crawl on deer). What is your experience?

Lately, been thinking of upping the poundage.  "Advantages of higher draw weight" on tradgang got me thinking. Especially up close, a more powerful bow up your chances if the deer moves.  I can easily shoot 50 pound draw, which feels like holding 42 or so.  Archer elbow/tendon healed up, and I simply shoot less, but with much more mindfulness.  Another plus would be that sanding down mulefat shots into shafts would be easier. 

I am building it a bit long, 56ttt and 58, nock to nock.  I can average about 26 draw length, and am building it a bit long as it is a board, not a stave.  A stave would be a few inches shorter. 

[bradsmith2010]

that sounds like a nice bow,, just make it a bit wider for the heavier weight,, you can always narrow if you need too,,,60ish  should be no problem,, just make your fades very gradual,,I like to back my bows as well,,deer goat or thin cowhide,,

this bow is osage about 60 ntn,,,,pulling 59#@ 26,,, it is 1 3/4  at wide part of the limb,, side profile is about 1 inch reflex,,
I am sure the hickory will make a bow less than 2 inches wide,, but I would err on side of wide,,if you can,,,,
I like backing the bows too,, I think on a board  bow will add some durability to any run out,,  I am not an expert on heat treatinig,  but I think a least a light heat treating will add to performance,,and help keep string follow to a minimum,,,that being said,, should shoot great with no heat treating as well,,

shooting with mindfulness is key,, I prefer shooting a heavier bow with lighter arrows for up closse deer hunting,, nothing less than 450 seems good for me,,  a 450 grain arrow out of a 65# bow is effective,,

  I think rawhhide backing it before you pull to full draw would be a good idea,,