Texas deer hunt photos and thoughts on bow length,,,

[bradsmith2010]

I went deer hunting last week, I did not get a deer but got some peace of mind,,
and thought alot about bow design and what is effective in given hunting situations,,
I will post photos and put my thoughts together about some of the bows I like to use and why,,,

[bradsmith2010]

more photos,,

[bradsmith2010]

the dark bow is on its first hunt,, just tillered a few days before I left, still has rasp marks and needs a bit of finish work but shoots just great,,
the other bow I made with Jim Hamm more than 25 years ago,,and killed my first primitive buck about that long ago with that bow,, I shot a red fox the same year,, tracked both critters with my dog and 4 year old daughter at that time,, I was shocked when she found the first blood,, :0 

[Stixnstones]

Nice pics... Texas has aleays been on my list

[Danzn Bar]

Nice pic's and story Brad.  I've hunted Texas twice but with a gun.  Before my tradition bow days.
DBar

[bradsmith2010]

I was thinking bout you guys when I took my camera,, I normally just concentrate on shooting ,,, it was fun,, but it does add another level of challenge to the hunting,, when deer come by and you are holding the camera,, makes it difficult to make meat,,,

[bradsmith2010]

ok, here are some of my thoughts on bow length,,
the longer I have made bows,, the more I realize for me there is not one bow that fits all,,,
hunting has been my main focus ,, even in bow making for the last 30 years,,
as I study the Native designs,, they become more and more my preference

    the shorter the bow,, is easier hunt with,, there is a diminishing return in accuracy that forces me to stay a bit longer,, but I wonder if that would be the case if I had been shooting a shorter bow for the last 50 years,,,
     the longer bows are more stable or forgiving,, but if you are hiding in a brush pile,, the longer bow can be more difficult to shoot,, tick the top limp on a twig when a deer is 10 yards to you and the game is over,,   
     what good is long range accuracy if you cant execute a 10 yard shot,,, and what good is getting off the shot if its not accurate out of the short bow,, so there has to be a middle ground each one of us woud have,,

      so I say the shortest bow you can shoot accurately to 15 yards is gonna give you the most opportunity,, also i am taking into consideration ,, that long range accuracy is not effective on white tails any way,,, after 20 yards they can move so much that accuracy can be a mute point,,so the closer range shot is gonna have a higher percentage of success,, and the closer range shot allows for the shorter bow to be used,,,,
      I had hunted elk this year with a 66 inch osage bow, and in the mountain terrain it seemed fine,, but when I took it to Texas, ,the brush there made it difficult to get to full draw,, so I went to a shorter bow and was more comfortable,,
      I did get a 10 yard shot and got my 60 inch bow drawn but the buck I did not see behind me exploded and blew the shot for me,, but I did sit and think a long time on what kind of  bow worked best,, and why so many Native bows were short,, even  before the horse,,
      my goal for next year is to shoot even a shorter bow and shorter arrow to reduce the amount of movenment and amount of time it takes to execute my shot,,,, maybe a 44 inch bow drawn to 22 or 23,,, if I can obtain accuracy to 15 yards I am confident with,,,, that is what I want to try,,,,
      I will not stop practicing my regular hitting an anchor form,, as I enjoy stump shooting out to 60 yards and that seems to be most accurate for me at long range,,,,but for my deer hunting I am going to adopt more and more of the Native style shooting,, and eventually would like to use a pinch grip,, thanks for listneing''' all comments welcome,, B

[StickMark]

Great topic.  Recently, I read "Become the Arrow," by Ferguson.  Using his suggestions on form, draw length for me is 28.25 or so, way longer than I have used in the past.  But this necessitates bendy handle bows, for the reasons you shared, primarily brush blind use.  I had a hickory bow that developed extreme set pulling to 28 plus.  As I was in Missouri, on a hunt trip, I had only one other bow ready, a recurve. which was easier to use in the terrain of BK Leach Conservation Area.  Ferguson's advice makes me more accurate; string hand arm goes over the arch of the foot,  expanding my draw.

My friend got the possible shot on a buck at 16 yards, but the buck was not 4 pts on one side, so he could not harvest the deer in that county  He shoots compound, way easier to hide in the brush.  I was with him when that buck came in, and tried to imagine drawing a long bow, or the recurve, 58", even at an extreme cant.  The photo shows another hasty blind, in shorter brush, and my recurve,  and the need to cant.  Two years ago, I could not draw a 68 inch bow without being seen in marsh grasses and in forest.

I am thinking the Native Americans were onto something.  I am re-reading J. Hamm's edition on Eastern Tribe bows, and even if the Natives were some times shorter, those still are often shorter bows!  I think the 60 inch bow you had is short, and I am hesitant to drop back down to shorter draw as I am not yet consistently accurate beyond 15 yds, and I live out west. This issue is the one I find most intriguing in primitive bow hunting. 

[bjrogg]

Brad I've been thinking along the same lines you've just laid out here. I have yet to make this type of bow, but could see advantages of hunting with a short draw and short physical length bow. At least in theory, seeing how I've never actually done it. I remember a different thread you started about draw to weight instead of anchor. It seems to me that getting to full draw length is even more difficult sometimes than dealing with a long bow. I do think the design and style of shooting you are describing would have advantages.
   The shortest bow I have ever shot, was at Elm Hall this year. Paulsemp brought his 48" sinew backed osage bendy handle with a sinew string. He let me shoot it along with several other of his bows. I liked that bow a real lot. I only shoot very close range but it felt really good and seemed to have good speed and cast. It's definitely on my must build list now. Of course my normal anchor is quite short. Probably shorter than Clints so that could help, but my draw isn't going to get any longer. Might as well go with it.
Bjrogg

[DC]

 string hand arm goes over the arch of the foot,  expanding my draw.

Can you expand on this a bit? Maybe a misprint?

[bradsmith2010]

Skick Mark,, I started shooting and hunting with Byron 20 years ago and am familiar with his shooting, he basically taught me to shoot,,
yes the longer draw can be an asset to accuracy,, but you will notice when he shoots close range moving targets,, he is not pulling the bow to full draw,, and is achieving extreme accuracy,,, so one can do both with practice,,
I am not suggesting giving up anthing,,, but just being able to shoot a short bow if it would be an advantage in given terrain or situation,,,
the advantage of of having the bow designed to the shorter draw,, is better performace at the shorter draw,, than if you short draw a bow designed for a longer draw,,,both can work ,, the the bow that is shorter in length gonna give you some clearance advantage that might make the difference in getting a shot at all,,
as stated above ,, i did shoot a longer bow for elk,, expecting to shoot out to 30 yards in the mountain terrain,,
    one might have to practice more to be proficient with long and short bows ,, but thats part of the fun,,,

also I want to add, I dont think the draw on Native bows was determined exclusively by their physical size,, just the like the English longbowmen that were shorter but had long draw,, I think the preference to draw length was determined by what worked best for its application,, they surely could have draw a bow longer if need be,, just like the English,,  and I am sure sometimes for war bows did,,,,
but for getting food I think the shorter draw bow had an advantage in some situations, not all,,
and getting close to the game was not an issue ,,, so close range accuracy for hunting was achievalbe with the shorter bows,,,
I can shoot pretty good at 10 yards,, so I know those guys had no problem with short bow at close range,,

[Morgan]

Great photos.
I am no marksman by any means, but, I have been shooting 3 bows that I've made a lot lately. Two are mid 60", 64" and 66" I think and one is 56". One of the long ones and the 56" one is mid 40lb range and one of the long ones is mid 50's. My accuracy with the little 56" bow consistently outshines my performance with the longer two.  I don't have any idea why. All my reading says longer bows = greater accuracy, but that hasn't been my experience lately.

[bradsmith2010]

thats great Morgan,, you get the accuracy and manueverability,, that bow sounds like a hunter for sure,,

[selfbow joe]

Nice pictures and story.

[Morgan]

thats great Morgan,, you get the accuracy and manueverability,, that bow sounds like a hunter for sure,,

I've actually been expecting that little bow to break at any time since I made it. I did a lot of things wrong with it and learned some from it. I've shot it a bunch and it hasn't broke, so I may finish it out and try to find a pig with it while all the leaves is still on. If you had to pick a length with whitewood that allows a full draw when it presents itself, what would the length be? I already assume you would gravitate towards a D bow.