No Set Tiller/Tiller Logic

[PatM]

Some string follow is induced by heat treatment and is not the result of set. This is what's done in reflex deflex designs and is maybe what Howard Hill was talking about.

  In most cases string follow is actually due to set.  Deflex/reflex bows are typically deflexed in the riser or non-working portions  of the inner limb.

 Howard's string follow comments probably originated when he was still shooting selfbows that were showing slight set.

 Hard to say if his later laminated bows were glued up to show string follow or just shot until they did.

[bubby]

I am not one to idolize many people, howard hill was a great shot. But some of his reasoning is suspect. In hunting the hard way he stated, and i paraphrase, that short bows and shorter recurves were no good for hunting as u cant be accurate with one, he concluded that since he was terriblle with shorter bows they weren't any good. Does anyone still think this is true?

[Selfbowman]

Gfugal well put. Arvin

[PEARL DRUMS]

Todays best bowyers would embarrass most of these "legends".

[willie]

Steve,

over in another thread, about tillering an ELB, you posted......

Are you going for as much weight as you can get out of it? There is a technique you can use for that.

perhaps you  can give us some pointers about your methods when one does not have a fixed weight goal.

thanks

willie

[SLIMBOB]

Thanks Steve.  It is these types of discussions that first brought me to this sight some years back and it is these types of discussions that interest me still.  Especially coming from someone with your experience.  I am inclined to listen.  Then I will see if my experiences match up with what I have read.  I'm not on here much any more.  No biggy, just a lot going on, but I do appreciate the good posts like this one.  We know so much more about these bows today than we did 30 years ago.  Some things written by our predecessors as concrete facts 30-40 years ago or even longer, aren't even worthy of discussion today.  Those writers brought us the best information they had at the time.  Osage was considered inferior to yew at one time.  White woods were not worthy bow woods.  Boards were not a good choice for self bows, and on and on.  These things were published and were in fact proven wrong by people that, through experience, showed the rest of us a new way.  I am grateful to them all, as I was then and I am still looking for data.  Information.  So again, keep up the good work!

[sieddy]

Hi Badger thanks for explaining your tillering process so clearly its really interesting and helpful. I was really surprised to hear you tiller on the long string up to 24". I thought that the general opinion was that its best to get off the long string and to low brace as soon as possible? Doesn't the long string give us a mistaken view of the tiller? I personally would be happy to stay on the long string till a later stage cos I hate trying to brace a strong stick. It's a stress inducing exertion I could do without! 

[George Tsoukalas]

sidey.
I think everyone finds their own way in this pastime of ours.
We do what works for us.
I long string tiller to 10"...looking for target weight or 5# over and good limb bending. Then I string it.That puts me 10# over target weight.
It's all good. Personal preference.
Jawge

[willie]

I was really surprised to hear you tiller on the long string up to 24"

That kind of surprised me also, but perhaps Steve is measuring the 24" with the initial droop. It would be nice to know how close to full draw this approximates.

[Badger]

Willie, the initial droop doesn't matter, it measures the same with the droop as if it were braced. If I am pulling 50#@24 on a long droopy string it will still be 50#@24" when I brace it. As long as the string hangs down about 6" or so not too long.

[gfugal]

As long as you know how long string effects the tiller I think you could stay on it longer, which might be more beneficial at reducing set. However, I don't necessarily know so I brace it as soon as possible.

[Badger]

As long as you know how long string effects the tiller I think you could stay on it longer, which might be more beneficial at reducing set. However, I don't necessarily know so I brace it as soon as possible.

   It makes the mid and outer limbs look slightly stiffer than they might look braced not a big difference.

[Badger]

     Something I left out that I think is an important part in making this work. You want all parts of the limb to finish at about the same time, as close as you can anyway. By this I mean you don't want to find yourself in a situation where you say, this is bending enough, now I will concentrate on other areas. If you are pulling to full target weight each time this method could possibly overdraw sections of the limb. The best method I can find is to simply keep " perfecting" the bend in small increments as it eases toward full draw and target weight. This might be the most important aspect of no set tillering that I hadn't really put my finger on and identified.

[upstatenybowyer]

Wow. Steve, you have a gift for putting things into words. What you've written above is something that I've only recently started to understand. I used to say, "this is bending enough, now I will concentrate on other areas" all the time. Then I noticed as I continued that sections seemed overdrawn and overstressed.

About 6 months ago I read something that either you or Marc said about getting a nice even bend throughout as soon as possible then gradually reducing the weight without loosing that balance. Ever since then that's what I've been trying to do. For me, it takes tremendous patience.