Tiller thoughts ? & shooting in ! & design !

[Stick Bender]

Hi Fellas this is a short working limb so called High gear bow it's 65 in. Ntn 12 in handle /fades lever bow about 19 1/2 working limb pulled to 29 in. @46 lb  any thoughts on this full draw tree shot sorry for the poor pic had to take a vid crop the wife is still sleeping ? It also has 3/16 positive tiller left limb is bottom limb

[upstatenybowyer]

I think it looks pretty good. Have you shot it yet? If so, how does it feel?

[Stick Bender]

Yep shoots nice even with those bricks on the end haven't thinned and narrowed them yet surprised the heck out of me that it didn't have any hànd shock with them spotted a questionable little splinter coming out of a undulation so I supper glued it and flaxed tapered patched it have to wait tell next week end to finish & put it threw the chrony but surprising little stack at my draw

[Pat B]

I'm not familiar with the tiller of these lever bows(Homie,Molle) but to me the outer working limb should share the bend more.

[Stick Bender]

Thanks Pat this is only the second one of these I have made I'm figuring it out too but I was told that you have to keep the outers stiff on this style bow other wise it kills the performance there a little tuffer to tiller at least for me  with the short working limb

[steve b.]

Your tiller looks pretty good as far as I can see.  I'd like to see it braced/unbraced, and closer up.  I've only made one, from oceanspray, and blackhawk helped me through the tillering.  I found it the most complicated and delicate tillering I've ever done.  If I remember, he recommended ever so slight movement in the levers. 
I had done what you did, using a picture out of one of the TBB volumes and yet I got a lot of criticism that the upper limbs were too stiff.  By the time I got done getting the ever-so-slight movement clear out to the tips I had lost the poundage I wanted and shelved the project.  But it shoots good for what it is.  I did a takedown handle and rawide back. 
But I think he is right and that the whole limb needs to work to some degree.  Otherwise you have half a limb not working and therefore violating the rule of mass, etc.  I kind of say that tounge-in-cheek because I think the design idea of a wide, working lower limb and narrow levers are the fastest bows.  (I'm thinking hunting type bow).  I've always wanted to explore this concept more but of course I have a laundry list of ideas that I want to get to.

[Stick Bender]

Steve your right about these bows in the sense that they lose weight quick with small amounts of scraping I collected a lot of full draw pics from guys around here that make these bows on a regular basis and it seemed that all of them had the stiff outers it will be interesting to get some Chrono numbers on this one being the high gear style basically a long bow with short working limbs & I can always bring the outers around more if need be ,I'm trying to get a lower weight hunting bow for cold weather late season hunting with good performance !

[DC]

I'm wondering if getting the levers bending slightly is just a measuring stick for getting the tips/levers as light as possible. Maybe perfect is getting them bending slightly and then backing up one scrape but very few of us have mastered that .

[BowEd]

With the bow at brace eye ball down the edge of your limb.Look for nice even bend in the working section.No stiff spots.It'll go straight at that lever.You make it bend more just beneath the fades you'll lose the advantage of lower string angle.I think Ritches' bow is very close to where it should be for that design.

[Stick Bender]

I don't know but those tips are still thick & wide yet 3/4 thick 1 1/4 wide at the static fade to 1 in. at the tips at least 2 oz of weight yet I would guess , with a 530 grain arrow 11 pluss gpp arrow it's shooting average 152 fps at 46 lbs  with b50 tiller string so hopefully by the time I get them lightened up & a 8 strand FF string  sanded & shot in I'm thinking 45 lb @29  163-166 fps 530 grain hunting arrow I would be happy !

[Stick Bender]

Ok thanks Ed posted at the same time as you some times you can split hairs & lose weight quick with these short working limb bows , but you have made more of this style bow then just about any body here so I appreciate your input I  checked with the strait edge & visually the limbs are about as even as any bow I have made but I think at my draw length I'm just about maxed on width and length on this one at least at my skill level I think I could have made a better bow starting wider & side tillering to weight next one I will know !

[BowEd]

For hunting I agree ease of draw on those cold ass mornings after a couple of hours of sitting is nice.Main thing to hit the sweet spot as with all bows.

[Pat B]

With this type of lever(Molle), narrow but thick, it would be hard to make them bend at all because of the "I" beam effect and I don't think they are suppose to bend but I do think more of the working limb should. With a Holmgaard style lever, more rounded, I think they can and probably should bend slightly at full draw.

[BowEd]

Yes I've got them to slightly bend myself,but you don't want them to get soooo narrow at the base of the lever that they get unstable at the middle of the lever and bow either.It's a balancing act.A slight reflex I've put on them before too then.Rounding the belly of them is the best too.

[BowEd]

Ritch...I think because you wanted a longer handle you set the design in.When you added levers that put more strain on it for as wide as it was.Heat treatment does wonders on hickory though.The lower poundage will help it maintain I think.You should end up with a nice bow.Show her to us when your all done.