Osage Rings- How thin is too thin?

[upstatenybowyer]

Assuming a ring is perfectly chased and the bow is backed, is there such a thing as an osage bow with rings that are too thin? I know it's been said that early to late wood ratio is the important thing, but these rings are so thin I can't really determine that.

[penderbender]

Looks like a lot of early wood from the color. Never touched any Osage though. Cheers- brendan

[PaulN/KS]

I have a stave with rings like that. Danged near went crosseyed blind trying to chase a ring. It's in the storage section of the shop for now...
Best of luck to you with yours.

[Danzn Bar]

Is that a freshly cut end?
DBar

[George Tsoukalas]

Looks like  a sapling. I may be tempted to just leave the back as is but do leave the stave a few inches longer.
To answer your question I say no on rings being too thin for an osage bow.
When I think about it most whitewoods have thin rings and they do just fine.
Jawge

[Mo_coon-catcher]

I chased one last summer that didn't have ting too aweful far from that in thickness. Though the late/early ratio was a bit better. It ended up becoming a 90# at 30" elb that was about as large as your thumb mid limb taking 2" of set with fretted nots after trying to make it go 150#. You essentially chase the rings with a scraper and a good eye. With a sharp scraper you will easily go through 2 or 3 rings at a time. Then just sand through to the final ring you want.

Kyle

[upstatenybowyer]

Thank you all very kindly for your input. I'm thinking I'll go for a low stress design, probably an ALB.

Dbar, the piece is from a branch that's been dead for quite a while. It was still on the tree, so it hasn't absorbed any moisture from laying on the ground. Pretty sure it's at an equilibrium MC.

I already dug into the back a little George, so I guess I'll try not to go crosseye blind chasing from here on out. Thanks for the heads up Paul! lol

[osage outlaw]

On rings that thin I think you can get away with violations if its done correctly.  I had an older guy at the Classic show me his daily shooter.  The back was nothing but paper thin rings violated everywhere.  He sanded it very smooth and coated it with superglue.  I could tell his bow had been shot a lot.  The arrow rest showed a lot of wear.  I attempted a similar bow at last years Classic.  The stave was nothing but micro early growth rings.  It was terrible bow wood.  I knew it wasn't going to make a good bow.  I just wanted to see if it would break at a ring violation.  It did not.  I want to try that again on a stave with more late growth.  Check out this link.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,56848.0.html

[Pat B]

I love thin ringed osage and when it has rings too thin to chase I add a rawhide backing. To me, the thin ringed stuff makes a snappier bow.

[upstatenybowyer]

That thread was just what I needed OO, thanks a bunch. Experiments like that really should be put into a book or something.

Pat, I sure do love a snappy bow, so onward and upward!

[Dances with squirrels]

36 rpi is the tightest osage I've made a selfbow with. Lots of early wood, no violations, no backing, very, very snakey, took some set, still shoots.

[bradsmith2010]

I would give it a try,, low stress design sounds good,,

[Hamish]

Sure some thin ringed osage bows can survive successfully unbacked. However your end grain shows a hell of lot of earlywood, ie weak rings. Good thin ringed stuff looks  predominantly dark on the end grain.
Rawhide back at the least. You would be better off planing the back down and gluing on some hickory.etc
I have seen unbacked osage with thin rings not survive first brace, and others that pop splinters on the back well after finishing tillering, when you would normally deem it to be a safe and successful bow.
Then again some people make bows that work through shear dumb luck, despite having thin rings, uncompensated for knots, and drawknife cuts  digging into the back. Most people will have better results stacking the odds in their favour with a backing.

[bradsmith2010]

so Hamish, you not feeling it on this one,,

[Pat B]

You won't know til you try it!