Native Amreican bow designs, how do they shoot?

[Traxx]

Im no flight shooter,nor do i hold the chrono as the only criteria to what constitutes a good bow,therefore,the simple working handle D bow fits the bill for me and my shooting.

[Selfbowman]

I could be proved wrong but no they won't perform as good. Simply because the arrow has to have a low spine weight to clear the bows handle. That been said build them if that's the look you trying to achieve. If they could have had better flight maybe the sharps and Winchester would not have won out .  Arvin

[Selfbowman]

yes and one thing I have been giving alot of thought too,, also the way you shoot one has a lot to do with the performance,,I am just speculating,,
but when you shoot one almost like a snap shooting,, the cast is greatly increased,,
if you pull it back to an anchor hold and release like we might normally shoot, the speed of the arrow decreases,, this would be evident in shooting for distance,, or with a chrono,,
I find my accuracy at close range very good,, with no anchor snap shooting and increased cast,,making the bow even more effecient,, and I have a feeling alot of ancient archers killing game at close range may have had a similar more effecient release to get the most out of the bow,, ,, just thinking too much, 

Brad that applies to all bows. The release that is. So what is going to help one will also help the other style.  I am not here to bash native bows though.just my thoughts. Arvin

[Pat B]

Arvin, a longer arrow will decreases the effective spine without diminishing the arrow and will shoot well from a wider handled bow.

[Selfbowman]

Pat are you saying  that the longer arrow does not have to bend more than a stiffer arrow. My thoughts are if the arrow of any length has to bend more to clear the handle . Then the arrow flight will be jeopardized due to energy loss from the arrow coming back to its original straight shape. This all happens after release. Thru a chrono this will not be witnessed but in flight distance it will. The arrow recovery robs cast.  Arvin

[Pat B]

I shoot 30" arrows for my 26" draw and have never noticed any loss of accuracy.
 Every inch over 28"(standard arrow is 28" long with a 125gr point)will reduce the effective spine by 5# so a 30" arrow with a actual spine of 50# will shoot like a 40# spined arrow. You can also reduce the effective spine by adding weight to the front. The standard requires a 125gr point on a 28" arrow to be the actual spine. If you add a 150gr point the effective spine will be reduced by 5#(5# per 25gr increase or decrease). So a 30" arrow with a spined shaft of 50# with a 150gr point will shoot like a 35# spined arrow.

[BowEd]

Im no flight shooter,nor do i hold the chrono as the only criteria to what constitutes a good bow,therefore,the simple working handle D bow fits the bill for me and my shooting.

I was always under the conclusion that any stable bow tillered correctly is a good bow.Whether it is a few fps faster then another or not.Many aspects to archery.Many hold the chrono as a tool though.To see how efficient a bow can get.No need to ball cut the process to know that.

[Selfbowman]

Mr Beadman I agree it's not all about speed!!! If you asking about cast speed has to be a factor. So does arrow spine. I understand matching arrow to bow. May not be the best at it . But I'm still learning so help oh hard head Arvin.

[BowEd]

Pat are you saying  that the longer arrow does not have to bend more than a stiffer arrow. My thoughts are if the arrow of any length has to bend more to clear the handle . Then the arrow flight will be jeopardized due to energy loss from the arrow coming back to its original straight shape. This all happens after release. Thru a chrono this will not be witnessed but in flight distance it will. The arrow recovery robs cast.  Arvin

+1.Distance shooting is different.A combination of arrow and bow efficiency is required.The chrono is mostly about the bow.
Again many aspects and challenges I feel can be gotten after in archery.Just having fun I figure to me.No need to down play someone trying to have fun on a fair playing field amongst friends.This means to me the archer is mostly challenging himself.Each challenge themselves as much as they want.In fact it's where concrete conclusions are gotten from.Why would that be  bad thing?Answer....It's not!!!

[bradsmith2010]

all arrows flex and bend when they come out of a bow,, even center shot,,
thats why its so tricky to find the right arrow for flight shooting,,
my point is,, some Native style bows, perfrom very well for there draw weight,, and have great cast as well as speed,,as well as accuracy,,and durability,,
if you have a bow with will shoot 170 fps with a 10 gpp arrow, you can tell its gonna cast the right arrow very well,,
I just tested a sinew back bow 55#@26 inches,, 180 fps with 500 grain arrow ( I had been shooting this bow for a year),, for me that is very nice performance,,, the arrow is going around the handle,, it is a simple Native inspired design,, 55 nock to nock,, I am not saying its the best design for flight shooting,, just that for a simple straight tip bow,, it shoots well and has nice cast,,
I have another bow I have been shootinig and it is just a self bow with rawhide back,,
it follows the string a bit after more than a year of shooting and hunting,, it is 55 nock to nock and 53# at 26 inches, and will shoot a 430 grain arrow 175 fps,,thats not amazing speed, but it would translate into nice cast for a bow,, and for close range hunting ,, very nice cast with a hunting weight arrow,,,  my ultimate goal is not speed,  but I love a simple design that has accruacy and speed and durability,,that will shoot for decades,,,
I am lucky I have some bows I am still hunting with after more than 20 years,,

[bradsmith2010]

Ok ,, Arvin, I will bite,, do you have any stats to verify your opinion on performance or cast, I am always open to learning something based on some documentation,, like maybe some bows you have tested,, or what the flight or chrono stats were,, ,,, flight shooting is way out my league but I do understand basic performance from a wood bow, ,and love to compare bows to bows,, any kind of bow,, I just like making the Native Style bows,, not really based on how they look,, but how they shoot for me,, 

comparing bows to rifles , does not seem like a reasonable comparison to me,, or I would not judge the performance of any bow against a modern rifle,, about a 2000 fps difference in speed ,, with a modern rifle quite a bit more,,

[Traxx]

Beadman....
Hit a nerve there,did i?

If some need flight shooting and chronos as verification,thats fine..Its just that i dont.The design i prefer has proven itself through time .My enjoyment and game in the freezer is all the verification i need.

[Hawkdancer]

What is a good source for the various Native American  bow designs?  I plan on getting started on a bow this summer, probably about 45 - 50 lbs @ 26/27".  Still got to find the stave.  Prefer a somewhat shorter than 60" ntn.
Hawkdancer

[willie]

parallel shaft arrows are pretty popular now a days, but I would like to hear more about he tapers and barrelling that might be commonly found on the NA arrows used with these designs

Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers by Steve Allely and Jim Hamm is good for looking at various designs. a little light on actual dimensions though...

[bradsmith2010]

Traxx,, I call the deer the organic chronograph,,