Native Amreican bow designs, how do they shoot?

[Oglala Bowyer]

I just woke up from my nap and read all this. Good to see you Traxx and Half Eye it's been awhile.

[Stick Bender]

This thread and the bow I'm working on got me thinking a lot about this design but the one thing you don't see talked about much is  tillering close to the the handle  if the bow is tillered in a arch of a circle tiller in theory the limb would be moving in a faster return path more bending near the handle but more hand shock  making a faster bow as opposed to more elipitical tiller with more comfort less speed  Brad have you noticed any speed difference between the two bows knowing you have made both ?

[bradsmith2010]

I like that bow you working on Sick Bender,, I think you need to send it to me and let me see if I can kill a deer with it before you waste any more time on it,,

[Stick Bender]

You don't want this one Brad to much aggravation  to enjoy 

[bradsmith2010]

ok here is my 48 inch sinew osage,,
it holds about 2 inches of reflex,, only has one elk back tendon on it,,
I just shot it,,47#@20 inches,, 156fps with 485 grain arrow,,,,

even at a short power stroke,, still spitting an arrow at deer killing speed,,
even its not center shot,, at deer killing range, that will have no effect on its ability to kill game,,

now you if I take the bow out to 23 or 24 inches as planed,, the ratio of speed to weight is probably gonna go up and it will have better cast at its draw weight,,

these bows are underated,,,they can shoot very hard even at a short draw,,

for example if I just drew it to 23 inches with no tiller the weight would go to bout,,55,,,that alone gonna give me about 7fps,,

and the longer power stroke at least 7fps,, making the bow shoot,,close to  165 170 fps with the 485 grain arrow,,( I think that would kill and elk, whew (AT)0

this shortie will shoot about the same as a very good long self bow,,with a longer draw,,and longer power stroke,,
it was not hard to make, ,took a very small stave and very little sinew,, effecient,, to make and shoot,,

I will tiller it out to 23 and see if I am close on the projected increase in cast,,

[bradsmith2010]

Stick Bender,, I missed your question bout the speed difference in tiller,, I have not noticed a difference,, I think the key is how much set the bow is taking,, if the unbraced profile is about the same I think the cast would be pretty close,,I think you are right in theory,, the stiffer handle bow should shoot a bit harder cause less working limb,, I think on a longer bow it might make more of a difference,, on the very short bow, I am not sure,,

[Traxx]

Brad.....
Was it you,that posted about a short sinew backed bow with impressive numbers,some time back?

On LW perhaps?

[Stick Bender]

Ok thanks  sense where on this topic  this little guy is seasoned up now it's 44 in  I'm thinking  45 lb @ 21  ,1 in retro flip  700 grain sinew 4 in. Of starting reflex 10 gpp  what would be your estimated  speed guess ? nice clean stave 1 minor pin ?  Also that's a nice bow you posted there please let us know how it is when you get it stretched  out !

[bradsmith2010]

just guessing 160 fps plus,, I havent tested one with that much reflex,, but based on what my bow shot today,,thats my guess,, it will be interesting to see,,
Traxx, I dont think I posted any sinew bow stats lately,,just here,,

[Traxx]

This would have been years ago.

[Badger]

  Brad, you little bow performs very well! One thing often overlooked is a big jump in efficiency with shorter bows. I have a little plum sinew bow about 50" long I need to chrono.

[bradsmith2010]

plum and sinew sounds really nice,, I have never seen one, please post if you get to shoot it,,
I have a plum bow Marc made, it is self bow and man it shoots great,,

[burchett.donald]

 I like to look at it from a hunter's aspect...It's natural for me to barley peer through or over brush as I hunt from the ground...A bent 48'' bow while canted is normally never higher than my head...I have been busted more than once by 68" limb waggle on the draw...   I think the shorter bows are more concealed for the ground hunter vs tree hugger...Short bows in close never gave me a problem as long as I spent time practicing...Ya gotta pay your dues...
                                                                                         Don


No disrespect meant to tree stand hunters

[loon]

I like to look at it from a hunter's aspect...It's natural for me to barley peer through or over brush as I hunt from the ground...A bent 48'' bow while canted is normally never higher than my head...I have been busted more than once by 68" limb waggle on the draw...   I think the shorter bows are more concealed for the ground hunter vs tree hugger...Short bows in close never gave me a problem as long as I spent time practicing...Ya gotta pay your dues...
                                                                                         Don


No disrespect meant to tree stand hunters

This is one reason why I really like the idea of a 50" long 28" or even 26" draw bow.. Should also be crazy fast, good for small game with lighter arrows?

Modoc bows seem basically like pyramid bows. Short and sinewed, they should perform perfectly well with light arrows. I wanna make a 26" draw version. With sinewed incense cedar it could be pretty cool - how wide would such a pyramid bow with a sligthly bendy handle have to be for 26", if 50" long? If 53" long? Should be a little rocket...

The Miwok design seems pretty effective and attractive too. Sinewed incense cedar or juniper, static recurves. Not sure of the draw length / bow length they got, though. maybe 1.25" wide handle and like 42" long - guessing.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,60499.0.html

[Selfbowman]

I am just a German Irish cross. Don't know a whole lot about Native American bows. Did they build selfbows? If so how was there performance. Less than sinue backed? I'm a longgggbbboowww guy so I will sit back and read. But when it comes to hunting I have killed whitetail, Nyala , and a wilderbeast with a selfbow. 68" ntn Osage . It don't have to be short to hunt .