Siberian elm staves - advice on twist

[Ippus]

So, I harvested a Siberian elm last fall (U. pumila), and it was as big a pain to split as everyone says elm typically is. Got about half of it done, though, and left the other half to cure in log form (probably split it later this year). This would be my first time making a bow with elm of any kind, and my first stave bow.

The issue is, I have a little bit of twist (more in some staves than others - the worst is maybe 90 degrees of rotation from end to end, the best maybe as little as 15). I got what I'd call about 3 usable staves so far, at most 62" of usable length. S.gr. is about .65.

I was leaning toward something ELB-ish, but at 62", I don't know if that's a good bet.

1)What's the best way to take twist out? I have clamps but not a workbench with a vise (just a solid old oak kitchen table I try not to ding up too much). Can you recommend plans for a cheap steaming apparatus?

2)How necessary is it to try an un-twist it? If I measure the center of the stave carefully and keep the back intact, can I get away with just cutting to the shape (and put up with some grain violation on the edges)?

I think that knotty one in the middle has some neat character. It's a little snaky, but the least twisted of the three, and there's some natural reflex (pretty sure it came from the windward side of the trunk, so might be a little reaction wood).

[BowEd]

Well it's going to be up to you to pick a design and with some draw knife and hatchet but mostly farriers rasp work if you don't have a band saw.First.It looks to me you've viloated the back a bit.Can you chase an intact ring?Do that.Then reduce stave to close to limb thickness dimensions or maybe 3/4" thick but follow the twist as it is.I would not violate it too bad on the edges just to bring it into the lay out plans of a bow.Follow the crown of the stave.After reduction of limb thickness if the wood is dry you can use a form and C clamps and dry heat to take out twist to a degree that's tolerable.Does'nt need to come out all the way.You said it's .65 density.Is that from a 1/2" dried dowel 5" long in a tube of water test?

[Ippus]

You said it's .65 density.Is that from a 1/2" dried dowel 5" long in a tube of water test?

Yes, more or less, although the stick was 10 in.

Not sure if the back is actually violated, or if it just looks that way because I was being overly cautious and left a lot of the innermost bark on in places, which then discolored over time.

[DuBois]

I think the one on top looks best. Follow grain, which will not be a straight line down center of stave. I thin Pat B has an elm build along in which he removes some twist and it would be helpful to look through it for some ideas. I am no expert but I use a hatchet to rough out the bow and I like that because it can help to stay true to the grain but can also lead to tear outs and splits into areas not wanted if not careful. It may be easier to see just what twist and bending is needed once roughed out and would need to be done before able to start manipulating it anyway.
Best wishes.
Marco D

PS are the growth rings as thick as it looks like they are in the pic that shows the end of stave? If they are that fat then a few nicks probably wouldn't hurt too much if feathered into the back.

[Springbuck]

I adress most twist by roughing out the bow as if there isn't any twist.  Identify the crown of the stave, meaning the highest part of the rounded back.   I actually mark it with a crayon or pencil.  Then I reduce the stave in thickness so the belly is flat and 90 °  to that midline of the crown.  Basically make the belly twist with the back.  Leave the handle area (if any) alone.  Depending on design, the limbs should be down to about 5/8" - 3/4" thickness.

Then, get at lesst five good C-clamps and a straight 2 x 4.   At this stage, it's no big trick to crank the stave straight by starting at one end, and clamping every couple of feet, adding extra clamps where needed.  Shim your clamps and use the rounded back to rock the twist out.  Get out any crooks at the same time.   Save one clamp off to the side.   Then, get out your heat gun, hotplate, or whatever and do your heat-treating.  As you go, use the spare clamp to cinch an area you have heated next to an existing clamp so you can move that one and not miss any spots.

You may not be able to get it all out, but elm likes heat.   Also, bugs love elm, so if you can get the rest of the log split and the bark off that'd  be best.

[bjrogg]

If you have access to a high pressure washer you can take bark off by hand then peel cambium off with pressure washer. I don't have much experience with Elm but enough to know it really likes to tear easy. I would avoid draw knife or hachet when you get anywhere close it roughed out shape. It seems a really good rasp is the tool of choice for Elm. I ruined one already with draw knife tearing interlocking grain out and had many others tell me they had the same experience. The stuff I have has snaky wavy grain on back and half inch down the snake is 180 degrees out of phase complete opposite of back. I haven't finished a bow from Elm yet but I did learn a few things not to do.
Bjrogg

[Badger]

  If it really is siberian elm it can't be compared to other elms. Not much of a bow wood but it will work if everything goes right. It is much lighter than most true hardwoods. I would say bendy handle designs might be best.

[BowEd]

I'm not sure whether the back is violated or not.If it's thick rings you could be ok.If a ring needs to be chased I had to safely do it using a scraper mostly.On edge so to speak.A person can do it with a draw knife but with it's interlocking properties it can tear.Especially if there are any knots to go by.You can use the draw knife as a scraper too.

[jeffp51]

Red-hand has made some really nice Siberian elm bows. I would think he could help. My experience is it can be difficult to straighten. It didn't want to hold the steam bends I put in it unless I also used dry heat. Mine also broke under tension, but I think the stave I was using had fungus issues.

[BowEd]

I've made a number of red elm bows and most all elms will have innerlocking grain.I never hardly ever chase a ring on elm.That's why being careful to just get the bark off with a little cambium for camo is the best.Steam bends good.Then tempered with heat gun.Likes a heat treatment.Different designs can be made it's up to the owner.
It can get a fugus easily if not took care of quickly.For sure if left on the ground.Suffers from diseases here too.Dies standing 40' tall.Best to get staves cleaned up shellaced and stored inside on a rack to dry.

[Redhand]

I usually don't worry too much about the twist, I will try and remove most of the twist when roughing out the bow.  If I do need to remove twist, I usually use steam.  Just a pot of boiling water covered with tin foil. 
Bjrogg has a good method of removing cambium with a pressure washer.
When your roughing out your elm stave, stay put your draw knife away and use a rasp.  In my experience I ruined a lot of elm staves with draw knife.