Author Topic: Sinew Processes ?  (Read 31515 times)

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Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2017, 01:51:32 pm »
Sorry posted the sam time as Patm
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline gorazd

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #76 on: March 17, 2017, 06:01:09 pm »
First turkish bow project. I put 2 layers of sinew already on the bow. Glue is mixture (half sinew glue - homemade, half hide glue -bought)

Waited 1 week between layers. I have used korean method; precombed thinly shredded sinew bundles, waited for glue to set and then put the wetted and heated layer on the bow. Then heated it with heat gun and wetted with fingers and some drops of water.

After glue setting again I used the compress bandage and bike inner tube to compress the sinew a bit more and to remove excess glue...

I let the bow to dry  in cold place in the basement couple of days and then put it in living room...
Both 2 layers combined are 2mm thick. I plan to put one layer on the top for the finish to get around 11-12 mm limb thickness. Bow (ntn) is 48inch long.
As this is my first sinew job I dont know what I have got ...

Sinew is pretty compacted but some fissures-white lines are present... is this to worry ?
I observed the white lines through magnifing glass but actualy no cracks ...
I sanded between layers and put 3 coat of sizing glue before and in between coats.

Will the bow survive ?


Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #77 on: March 17, 2017, 06:08:38 pm »
the sinew looks good,,

Offline BowEd

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #78 on: March 17, 2017, 06:32:48 pm »
I think your glue was a little too dilute meaning too much water.Not enough glue to begin with.Don't think the wrapping method did it really.Don't know for sure but I think it'll be ok yet though.I've seen traces of it on some of my sinew jobs but not overall before.Never did anything about it and never bothered much in the end here.One of those things to find out you'll have to tiller it later.Don't know either if there is a way of infusing more glue in there either.Alcohol and glue mixtiure and heating?Might not be neccessary though.I've never done it.Does'nt help you much but....someone else could comment that's seen it too and followed through tillering it.Good that you put sizings like that between layers too I'd say.Especially when heating it later.Maybe using drops of glue instead of water next time.
I've read about the korean method but have never done it.Looks like a good attempt at it though.Especially your first time sinewing.Leaves a very nice straight application.Getting the most out of it so to speak.I guess you'll end up with around 3mm or close to 1/8" thick layer with the third layer in the end then.I would make sure your last application has a thicker glue to water ratio.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2017, 06:41:33 pm »
I have read about the korean method but never tried it here is one Im working on 850 grains of Elk & moose sinew I used a hybrd method part Adam Korpiwicz & part Patm vet wrap , not pretty but servicable this is a knoty sapling still have another 600-700 grains to go , it will be aprox 1400 grains total I used granulated hide glue on this one plus 6 1/2 reflex
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2017, 06:42:15 pm »
Reverse Brace
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 07:29:28 pm by Stick Bender »
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline gfugal

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2017, 07:23:12 pm »
Brace
Is that brace or reversed brace?

Gorazd i think your bow should be fine. Someone on Artan posted they key to not getting those streaks is to have thicker glue like was mentioned earlier. I had it on my bows and it didn't seem to cause any problems but then again they weren't that high of poundage. I think its just the different colorations of some fibers that have less glue on them (since the glue is thin its clearer and more translucent on some spots) but i'm not sure. Seemed pretty sturdy still nonetheless.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2017, 07:33:04 pm »
Yep reverse brace corrected it thanks my bow is still curing only 5 days sense sinew it's down to only losing a little under 1/2 oz  per day now but it amazed me how quickly it loses weight after sinew this was the first time I weight while sinew curing
If you fear failure you will never Try !

mikekeswick

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2017, 01:35:21 am »
First turkish bow project. I put 2 layers of sinew already on the bow. Glue is mixture (half sinew glue - homemade, half hide glue -bought)

Waited 1 week between layers. I have used korean method; precombed thinly shredded sinew bundles, waited for glue to set and then put the wetted and heated layer on the bow. Then heated it with heat gun and wetted with fingers and some drops of water.

After glue setting again I used the compress bandage and bike inner tube to compress the sinew a bit more and to remove excess glue...

I let the bow to dry  in cold place in the basement couple of days and then put it in living room...
Both 2 layers combined are 2mm thick. I plan to put one layer on the top for the finish to get around 11-12 mm limb thickness. Bow (ntn) is 48inch long.
As this is my first sinew job I dont know what I have got ...

Sinew is pretty compacted but some fissures-white lines are present... is this to worry ?
I observed the white lines through magnifing glass but actualy no cracks ...
I sanded between layers and put 3 coat of sizing glue before and in between coats.

Will the bow survive ?

Maybe, maybe not. Your glue is too thin. Also bear in mind that any 'excess' glue is only there if you add it in the first place. The real difference is that wooden bows aren't straining the sinew much, hornbows however do. Fingers crossed :)

Offline gorazd

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2017, 05:22:13 am »
Thanks all !

For the last layer of sinew I will make extra thick glue.

Offline gorazd

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #85 on: March 18, 2017, 07:12:40 am »
Obviously there is a bit different using hide glue and sinew laminations comparing fiberglassing ...

Epoxy should be very thin to better wet the glass/carbon cloth...
And Epoxy does not shrink when drying  :OK ...

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2017, 11:58:17 am »
Ok I tried exspermenting between Patm wrap method & Adams method this is only my opinion from trying both methods Patm method requires less skill & less prep time and is far easer to apply, Adams method requires a little more prep time & skill , I saved my longest pieces of sinew for last using Adams method the bow below has 1150 grains of sinew over 49 in. working limb & the back has not been sanded on the last layer but by using Adams method of meshing all layers prior to gelling they turned out very smooth and even for a strong bond I keeped the bow at 55 Deg 47% humidity in my shop for 31/2 days so the carbon molecules could bond in the matrix making a stronger matrix some thing the ancient composite bowyers where well aware of , I think both methods work fine but really don't like the idea of using heat after gelling it makes for a less strong bond , for a average bow the wrap method would work fine but for a highly reflexed design Adams is superior I think using his method you have more control of the glue to sinew ratio in the end of 25% with the heat wrap method you really don't know where your glue to sinew ratio ends up , I'm not stating to cause any controversy just my own personal exsperience , there is enough unknowns in this game I just prefer methods that minimize them. Also used rabbit skin glue to increase gel time.
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2017, 11:58:47 am »
Sinew
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline DC

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2017, 12:11:53 pm »
" Adams method of meshing all layers prior to gelling"

What is meshing?

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Sinew Processes ?
« Reply #89 on: March 30, 2017, 12:15:44 pm »
Laying them parallel  and meshed together so there joined as  one prior to the gelling there DC  so they become one solid matrix !
If you fear failure you will never Try !