Author Topic: Force draw on bow?  (Read 9844 times)

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Offline Selfbowman

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Force draw on bow?
« on: February 20, 2017, 07:40:58 pm »
You guys may think I am to dumb to explain this to me! Is this a good force draw on a 51@27 ? I have studied the BB1 about design but a bit confused. :-\ I assume the higher above a straight line the better. What is the best we can hope for ? According to the chart where in the limb should mass be added? In thickness or width?  Arvin
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 07:54:11 pm by Selfbowman »
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Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 07:47:05 pm »
This is the bow.
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Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 07:55:30 pm »
Can you tell I am confused ?  ;D Arvin
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Offline DC

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 08:02:51 pm »
All I know is humped is good and sagged it not. ;D I don't think that you can tell if a bow needs width or thickness. It's like a report card, it tells you how you did, not how to improve it.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 08:03:14 pm »
I'm confused by your question a bit but I'll try here.Yes higher above the straight line is better I would say.The more early draw bow weight is determined by the amount of healthy sustainable reflex it holds.....ie..Stored energy.A humped fdc.So a design is made and tillered properly to get this or materials are used that can hold more reflex and be efficient with it's poundage.I don't believe having lots of reflex is the only factor here either though.Design and tillering will get you a lot too.Efficiency....fps per pound of draw weight is all that should matter to an archer that wants to test these bows.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 08:36:31 pm »
Ok DC how did I do ? O:) :-[ Arvin
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Offline DC

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 08:50:05 pm »
B,B+ I dunno, it's got a hump, most are straight I believe. What I found interesting when I did an FD on one of my recurves is that you can see when the string lifts off. I would guess that your string lifts off at about 22". Am I right?

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 09:02:44 pm »
Here is a braced pic .
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Offline PatM

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 09:03:27 pm »
I don't think you can get much of an upward bow to the F?D curve unless you have reflex or recurves.  How the bow delivers the energy back on release relative to losses is very important too.

 The F?D curve only tells part of the story but some people practically use it as the performance of the bow.

Offline Badger

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 09:21:13 pm »
  You need to take a measure at least once every 2" to get a decent curve reading. The early draw is very important. Ideally, it would climb very fast in the begaining and then start flattening out to as low angle as possible. We just don't see anything that dramatic on self bows though. If you get a slight hump you are doing pretty good. I expect with your profile you should get a little hump.

Offline DC

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 09:28:38 pm »
Here is a braced pic .
Oops, no string lift off there ;D ;D

Offline loon

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 10:47:20 pm »
looks like horizontal is draw weight and vertical is draw length... (it's sideways?) looks good

efficiency matters arguably more, especially as arrows get lighter

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 10:56:07 pm »
My spring scale is not the most accurate around. Curious ! If you had a full scale grid and you weighed your bow in two inch increments .Marked those spots on the grid. Laid the tip of your bow on the starting point at brace. Would the back  of your bow unstrung match these points? I don't have a tiller board with grid like that or I could tell you. Arvin
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Offline Springbuck

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 02:31:20 am »
So, I think you did pretty darn well.  Any F/D curve above the line at all in an essentially straight limbed bow design is pretty good.  And, that is a pretty bow, too.

The flipped tips and almost straight unstrung profile on your bow should give it a pretty good start: high string tension at brace, along with higher early draw weight.

Your F/D curve would be fatter if the bow was longer, had more recurve, or reflex, or took less set during tilllering, etc, but, as mentioned, that may or may not make it shoot faster or farther.  Really high humped F/D bows CAN be less efficient.

So, the questions you asked about mass placement have more to do with ensuring you have enough wood to do the job (avoid set and breakage), and in the right places not to slow down the shot.  Little to do directly with F/D curve. Geometry allows a badly built, poorly designed bow to show a nice F/D plot while the bow is slowly dying from a crushed belly.

So the answer is, if indeed you needed more mass, it would be wherever the bow took more set than you planned on during tiller.  Probably in the form of width, but maybe length, as I didn't see it mentioned.

Likewise, now that you have a curve plotted, shoot some arrows.  That F/D curve is adequate (at least) to make your bow a pretty quick little shooter, assuming a couple things.  First and biggest is tip weight.  If you managed set and tip weight well, you  probably have a bow there you should be reasonably quite proud of.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Force draw on bow?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 05:50:46 am »
The bow is 69ntn. 500gr arrow.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 06:05:38 am by Selfbowman »
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!