Removing sapwood from erc

[upstatenybowyer]

So I've got this stave of erc with plenty of heartwood to make an all-heartwood bow, but there's a lot of sapwood above it that will have to be removed to do so. I know there's some debate about whether the heartwood or sapwood is superior, but either way, I've made a mostly-sapwood bow and I'd really like to make one that's mostly heartwood, mostly because of its beauty.

Anyway, assuming I'd back the bow with sinew or rawhide, is it best to attempt to chase a ring, not worrying too much about violating because it will be backed, or should I proceed as if decrowning and go for parallel lines running all the way down the back?

Thanks 

[wizardgoat]

I had a flawless ERC stave I bought online. I had the same thinking as you, I successfully belly split off the heartwood so clean, it left a mostly unviolated heartwood stave. I backed it with rawhide, and make a nice shooting lightweight longbow. I shared a few pics in a recent thread.
I haven't done anything with the sapwood stave yet.
I've seen a lot of ERC selfbows utilizing the sapwood and heartwood much like a yew bow.
I believe the heartwood has a little better compression strength, but it's just a hunch.
For sinew backed yew or juniper I always plow through the back shaping it how I want not worrying about growth rings. I'll be more careful with rawhide though

[upstatenybowyer]

I had a flawless ERC stave I bought online. I had the same thinking as you, I successfully belly split off the heartwood so clean, it left a mostly unviolated heartwood stave. I backed it with rawhide, and make a nice shooting lightweight longbow. I shared a few pics in a recent thread.
I haven't done anything with the sapwood stave yet.
I've seen a lot of ERC selfbows utilizing the sapwood and heartwood much like a yew bow.
I believe the heartwood has a little better compression strength, but it's just a hunch.
For sinew backed yew or juniper I always plow through the back shaping it how I want not worrying about growth rings. I'll be more careful with rawhide though

Thanks goat. Haven't heard the term "belly split" before. What is that exactly?

[Pat B]

A few years ago I saw and shot an all sapwood ERC, ELB style bow. No heartwood at all. I was amazed how well it shot and how little set there was in this little 45# bow.
 If you have a bandsaw you can saw the sapwood off then clean up the heartwood.

[bubby]

I know gundocs holey erc self bow is all heartwood

[mullet]

A few years ago I saw and shot an all sapwood ERC, ELB style bow. No heartwood at all. I was amazed how well it shot and how little set there was in this little 45# bow.
 If you have a bandsaw you can saw the sapwood off then clean up the heartwood.

Pat, is that the bow I shot at your first Camporama? If so, I was getting ready to say the same. It was smooth, and very fast, with very little heartwood.

[Josh B]

I think you're thinking of Simon's cable backed holie ERC Bub.  Mine was 90% sapwood. Josh

[osage outlaw]

Thanks goat. Haven't heard the term "belly split" before. What is that exactly?

A belly split is when the stave is thick enough to split it with a growth ring and get 2 or more staves from it. 

[upstatenybowyer]

Thanks goat. Haven't heard the term "belly split" before. What is that exactly?

A belly split is when the stave is thick enough to split it with a growth ring and get 2 or more staves from it. 

Okay, that's amazing. How in god's name did you do that?  If anyone can tell me how to accomplish that I'll be forever in their debt.

[Pat B]

It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know.     
 Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.

[upstatenybowyer]

It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know.     
 Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.

Pat, man, your killin' me! Okay, I can accept that. How 'bout this... I'll keep paying very close attention to all the suggestions, make generous contributions in trade, keep posting bows that reflect what I've learned, and when you guys feel I am ready, someone can PM me that secret knowledge. Okay?

[bubby]

I think you're thinking of Simon's cable backed holie ERC Bub.  Mine was 90% sapwood. Josh

Actually Josh i was thinking of that bl walnut and had a brain fart

[mullet]

It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know.     
 Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.

Pat, man, your killin' me! Okay, I can accept that. How 'bout this... I'll keep paying very close attention to all the suggestions, make generous contributions in trade, keep posting bows that reflect what I've learned, and when you guys feel I am ready, someone can PM me that secret knowledge. Okay?

Do you have any young children?

Take a machete half way down the thickness of the stave and beat it from one end to the other till the belly stave pops off.

[upstatenybowyer]

It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know.     
 Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.

Pat, man, your killin' me! Okay, I can accept that. How 'bout this... I'll keep paying very close attention to all the suggestions, make generous contributions in trade, keep posting bows that reflect what I've learned, and when you guys feel I am ready, someone can PM me that secret knowledge. Okay?

Do you have any young children?

Take a machete half way down the thickness of the stave and beat it from one end to the other till the belly stave pops off.

Okay Mullet, I've got two. You can have the boy 

Seriously though, I'm in your debt forever. 

[PatM]

Just be aware that some woods will split nicer when doing that. I've actually used a curved drawknife to get a split started in ring porous wood so that the split followed the early growth almost perfectly.