violating a back

[Jack Napier]

You can't dispell a myth or become an expert by reading about it...build 500 bows or so and then we'll talk, and while your at it post pics of your work not some museum pics, put up or shut up

Alright alright we'll get some of those pictures for you... Some videos, too. It's gonna be revolutionary when people realize how this grain violation stuff was all just a bunch of voodoo. I hope I'll at least get nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize or something!

[PatM]

So it stretches but it's non-working. What engineering school did you say you went to again?

[Jack Napier]

So it stretches but it's non-working. What engineering school did you say you went to again?

You already know what I meant, and you're pretending you don't understand here. A cable doesn't glue over the grain and reinforce the surface like rawhide, sinew, linen and fiberglass do. It doesn't offer non-working protection.

[Jack Napier]

Jack...I'm really close to Missouri.I believe in show me as a fact of truth.Phenomena???Anthropolgy literature??? as proof of yours?Show me a finished violated flat back knotty self bow at full draw that you've made that is deer killing potential.
So since I put myself into a student chair to listen here what are your opinions on violating the longitudal grain?I'm ready to learn from a hands on expert.

Longitudal grain violations are not a problem. I'm almost certain that PatM will agree with me on this one. If PatM doesn't agree with this, we're going to have a serious problem here.

[BowEd]

Jack....Violated superior to one growth ring?How about when you go through a knot?What do you think's going to happen?

Absolutely nothing. I don't understand why everybody has this superstition about cutting down knots -- and refuses to evolve from there. This is another holdover from the English longbow days when English bowyers had to make due with crappy quality, knotty wood. I understand why English techniques are going to predominate in an Anglosphere country, but as a dyed-in-the-wool Cornish American, can we move beyond Victorian ideas about bow making, and realize, for once, that our ancestors didn't get everything right? HOWEVER, I generally avoid knots because they are useless weight in a bow. It's not the year 1600 anymore, we don't depend on a deplinishing supply of yew for bow wood anymore, and so there's really no need to take knotty bow staves anymore. In today's world of carbon emissions and global warming we need to be choosing our trees very responsibly.
You are wrong my friend.Again show me your bow you've made bud.I suggest you pull some shavings and make some bows and show them.Then we could see as you stated a new superior concept from you far above what's been shown on this forum.
Your opinion of sinew and what it will do as a backing is wrong too.

[PatM]

So it stretches but it's non-working. What engineering school did you say you went to again?

You already know what I meant, and you're pretending you don't understand here. A cable doesn't glue over the grain and reinforce the surface like rawhide, sinew, linen and fiberglass do. It doesn't offer non-working protection.

 No, I actually don't know what you're trying to say.   A cable doesn't have to be glued to function the same.

[Jack Napier]

So it stretches but it's non-working. What engineering school did you say you went to again?

You already know what I meant, and you're pretending you don't understand here. A cable doesn't glue over the grain and reinforce the surface like rawhide, sinew, linen and fiberglass do. It doesn't offer non-working protection.

 No, I actually don't know what you're trying to say.   A cable doesn't have to be glued to function the same.

Yes it would, Pat. Not only would it need to be glued down, it would need to cover the entire length of the bow. I'll say it again, the cable is doing diddly squat to preveng splinters from rising and you know that. It's nothing like a linen backing.

[PatM]

Well then make a Spruce or Douglas fir bow with no cable backing and haul it back. 

[Jack Napier]

Well then make a Spruce or Douglas fir bow with no cable backing and haul it back. 

C'mon Pat, don't make yourself look like a non-functioning autist here. Go ahead and make yourself a spruce bow with no linen backing and just haul it back. Or better yet, make a spruce bow with violated growth rings and don't back it all and haul it back. That is exactly what people used back in the day in Canada.

[Stick Bender]

Hey Jack I don't know if you relies this but every body on this site has made a bow or 2 or 500  un like
You there willing to back up there comments with there ex samples of there bows ,  I don't  know if your doing some early celebrating or if your really a bower but it seems to me you can't back up your comments  with any ex samples of your mythical bows , seems to me your just seeking some attention but there's Face book & twitter  that you could probably get more people to buy your malarkey ,but this is a hands on rubber on the road site so ether show your bows that you bragged up or move on to social media 

[bubby]

Sinew is a working part of the bow. Another in a long list of assumptions

[osage outlaw]

I've done some experimenting with violating thin ringed osage.  I do believe that you can get away with it to some extent if it is done correctly.   However, your attitude and arrogance have completely nullified any valid points you may have brought up.  Reading your posts is like hugging a cactus.    You have made wild claims about your work yet you have not posted anything that would back it up.  You have also insulted some very talented and proven bowyers.  I think you owe them an apology. 

[dylanholderman]

I'm still laughing about using baleen to make a cable 

[dylanholderman]

I've done some experimenting with violating think ringed osage.  I do believe that you can get away with it to some extent if it is done correctly.   However, your attitude and arrogance have completely nullified any valid points you may have brought up.  Reading your posts is like hugging a cactus.    You have made wild claims about your work yet you have not posted anything that would back it up.  You have also insulted some very talented and proven bowyers.  I think you owe them an apology.

Put my feelings into words better than I ever could have

[Gangsta Bow]

Hey Jack I don't know if you relies this but every body on this site has made a bow or 2 or 500  un like
You there willing to back up there comments with there ex samples of there bows ,  I don't  know if your doing some early celebrating or if your really a bower but it seems to me you can't back up your comments  with any ex samples of your mythical bows , seems to me your just seeking some attention but there's Face book & twitter  that you could probably get more people to buy your malarkey ,but this is a hands on rubber on the road site so ether show your bows that you bragged up or move on to social media 

you talkin' sideways, homie. my man already showed y'all countless unbacked bows with violated rings that must have been used for hunting or even drive by shootings. how could it get mo' real than that? everybody knows you violate the growth rings on your bows. that's how you get you a gangsta bow. did you know you violate your sinew too when you splice it on top of itself? oy vey!

man, violating growth rings is the key to a successful bow. those growth rings work in conjunction with eachother like a system. It's like laminating your bow and it takes the stress off the back.