violating a back

[paulsemp]

I know you're having a lot of fun getting a rise out of everyone but all you gotta do is go to your Workshop and do a bunch of tests on scraps. Have fun ruining this guy's thread but until you post something you made proving your point I can guarantee you you're falling on deaf ears.

For you guys that have been around here for a while this one reminds me of squirrel Slinger or whatever his name was

[George Tsoukalas]

Jack, you may conduct your own test. I am not interested.

No need to chase a ring on walnut. Take off the bark and make a bow.
Jawge

[Mo_coon-catcher]

BVS, I've done a couple of walnut bows where I chased a ring and got both sapwood and heartwood in the limbs. They both worked well. It is very difficult to chase a ring in walnut but doable with a little water and good light. The ones I did had moon rings. It's not too bad to get a yearly ring but yeoon rings give a little trouble. Both of mine had many small violations in the sapwood but has held fine. And a couple tips wth walnut, make if fairly wide, it bends easy with steam and it takes heat treating very well.

Kyle

[PatM]

Jack started out on PA by lamenting that he was unable to see how smooth finishes could be achieved without modern tools and posted pics of smooth NA bows, bewildered how they were pulling this off. Then he decided that most of them were rough and lumpy and it was unnecessary to make them smooth.

 This latest violated back kick is likely confirmation bias as an answer to being unable to peel bark or work to a growth ring.

 
 One thing worth considering is that bow wood is not a commodity that surrounds a person in the great wide open and the lumber that settlers dragged along with them was a likely source of lumberized bow wood of species that  do withstand violations. Wagon hoops  of Hickory etc. Pick handles etc.

 

 

[PatM]

You are correct there Mr Jack I am confused the vast majority of bows that I make have crowened backs so the only way I could apply your theory is to de crown the stave which would make no sence to me when its far easer to apply the known dogma of a single growth ring , are those your bows in the pics ?  Maybe they where just lucky on short draw bows compared to higher stresed full draw designs just saying hypothetically ? Maybe the anglo ansestors where on to some thing just saying Jack !

No sir, I didn't make any of those bows. Those are all Native American bows from the 1800s, one was made by Sitting Bull, the last one I posted was made by High Bald Eagle, a participant at the Battle of Little Bighorn. They were weighted up to 85lbs draw, with no sinew backing. And severely violated growth rings. Pulling them this far was no problem:



It's no problem when you spread the stress of the tension over a flat surface.

  Do you know the difference between a painting and a photograph? lol Actual photos from the period show very short draws. VERY short in most cases.
  In fact most of them make  Osage Outlaw look like he's hooting a Yuni.

[Jack Napier]

Jack started out on PA by lamenting that he was unable to see how smooth finishes could be achieved without modern tools and posted pics of smooth NA bows, bewildered how they were pulling this off. Then he decided that most of them were rough and lumpy and it was unnecessary to make them smooth.

This is an inaccurate description of what really happened, --but note that no one in those threads were able to give me a straight answer as to what they were really doing-- only more assumptions with no evidence.

 

This latest violated back kick is likely confirmation bias as an answer to being unable to peel bark or work to a growth ring.

I have no problems peeling bark or working growth rings. Who can't do that?

 
 

One thing worth considering is that bow wood is not a commodity that surrounds a person in the great wide open and the lumber that settlers dragged along with them was a likely source of lumberized bow wood of species that  do withstand violations. Wagon hoops  of Hickory etc. Pick handles etc.

Lumberized rocky mountain juniper? Lumberized chokecherry? Puh-leeze. I do know Indians sometimes made bows out of cattle yokes but that's not lumber.

[osage outlaw]

I've seen about as many Patm bows as I have Jack Napier bows 

[Jack Napier]

  Do you know the difference between a painting and a photograph? lol Actual photos from the period show very short draws. VERY short in most cases.
  In fact most of them make  Osage Outlaw look like he's hooting a Yuni.

Wrong again you are sir.



Driftwood bows:

[Jack Napier]

I've seen about as many Patm bows as I have Jack Napier bows 

Pat M doesn't make bows, he makes oversized tooth picks. Wait till you see my bows, I'm going to take PrimitiveArcher's standards to the next level.

[PatM]

A Cherokee dressed as a Sioux and sinew backed Eskimo bows. Brilliant. lol

[Jack Napier]

A Cherokee dressed as a Sioux and sinew backed Eskimo bows. Brilliant. lol

Those weren't sinew backed. They were balleen-cable braced. Huge difference. Sinew backing is a full  covering that is alleged to keep splinters from lifting. All a cable (sinew or otherwise) does is relieve tension on the bow's back. And realistically that's going to be necessary for some shoddy driftwood.

[PatM]

Those weren't sinew backed. They were balleen-cable braced. Huge difference. Sinew backing is a full  covering that is alleged to keep splinters from lifting. All a cable (sinew or otherwise) does is relieve tension on the bow's back. And realistically that's going to be necessary for some shoddy driftwood.

Alleged?  A baleen cable, eh?   

[Stick Bender]

I've seen about as many Patm bows as I have Jack Napier bows 

. Comon Jack Im stuck at work needs some bow porn ? Show us some of those wicked rocket launchers of yours Please ?

[Jack Napier]

Those weren't sinew backed. They were balleen-cable braced. Huge difference. Sinew backing is a full  covering that is alleged to keep splinters from lifting. All a cable (sinew or otherwise) does is relieve tension on the bow's back. And realistically that's going to be necessary for some shoddy driftwood.

Alleged?  A baleen cable, eh?

Yes. Can you imagine how much sinew would be required to make a cable this long? Only a whale's baleen was sufficient.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QlTAdivgTKY/Sqo8nYLtM9I/AAAAAAAAAtU/fqV7mopu8BY/s1600-h/CMC+bows03.jpg

[bubby]

I've seen about as many Patm bows as I have Jack Napier bows 

Pat M doesn't make bows, he makes oversized tooth picks. Wait till you see my bows, I'm going to take PrimitiveArcher's standards to the next level.

Not to stand up for patm, but I've seen some of his bows and haven't seen squat of yours in fact all we have got out of you is being told our bows are all junk and you spouting off how great you are. Go troll some where else and quit wasting everybody elses time. This ain't facebook put up or shut up