Beautiful juniper, first try. Need advice

[Nevink]

Good day bowyers,

Iīve wanted to build a selfbow since i was 12 yrs old, carrying trunks home but always finding them to have a twist.

Now Iīm 27 and have been seasoning a juniper trunk (4'' diameter) for one year. I live in Sweden and all junipers here are severely twisted and knotty. I believe this was tree nr. 400 i examined. It was perfectly straight and had no knots on one side.


I recently splitted the log, very satisfied, and started chopping out the piece I regarded as the most suitable one after reading the rings in the ends. I followed the grains on both sides of the limbs.

Now I have a stave of the dimensions shown in the pictures:

Width along the whole stave: 1 3/4 ''     /     45 mm
Depth in handle, fading out to the ends: 1 3/8 ''       /     35 mm

The length of the usable part of the stave is around 86 ''     /    220 cm



The stave, as seen in one picture, has a slight twist. Around 10 degrees. This is in the part of the stave that I had preferred to use.

If shortening the stave, I can get rid of most of the twist.


The lenght I would prefer for the bow is 79 inches, same as my own height.
I want to make a longbow.


One picture shows the ratio of heart- and sapwood. If I proceed along the intended route, the depth when finished tillering will most likely exclude the heartwood along most of the stave.

The back of the stave is only slightly crowned and in wonderful condition.


Now to my current dilemma:

If I would build the bow with the twist, how do I treat the belly?

1, I keep the back on the part I am tillering as guidance and remove wood proportionally on left and right side.

2, I keep the string as reference and leave more wood in the side of the belly facing the string, where there is a twist.


I hope this description was enough for you to understand my question.

I also warmly welcome all input regarding building a sapwood juniper bow, both as a longbow version but also alternatives that would be suitable for the current piece of wood. The draw weight intended is 50 pounds +. I donīt know about sinewing a bow of this length, and I have no sinews available. If you all believe I need to sinew this, I wonder if I can buy dried oxen sinews in the form of dog snacks to use?


Thank you for your replies and all the other wonderful threads on this forum.

[Parnell]

Hello and welcome to PA,

It is always a pleasure to see people participating from around the globe.  It sounds like you've got an interesting start and have shown patience in your taking the time to let your stave season.

So it sounds like you are quite tall, but, what is your draw length? 

Typically juniper bows are seen with sinew being shorter "bend through the handle" designs.  Once bows get to be a "longer" length the weight of sinew on the bow doesn't increase efficiency. 

I don't have much experience with juniper, so I'm hoping others with more experience will advise you, but I'd think about keeping the stave at your height and perhaps look into a Holmegaard style design? 

You don't have to back your bow with sinew, for helping to protect the back you could use other materials such as linen, silk, or even paper.  There are many options.

I'm not following the 2 points you are making with questions.  But I would say, follow making your dimensions as evenly as possible in your stave following the woods grain and when you have the bow at "ground tiller" begin to use heat to take out twist.

I hope this begins to help.  Good luck!

Parnell

[upstatenybowyer]

I've only worked with Eastern Red Cedar (which is a juniper). I made a 60" sinew-backed recurve that was mostly sapwood with a little heartwood. I kept the limbs 2" wide to try to avoid set (I've read sapwood takes more set than heartwood). With the width and the sinew it still took a little (about 3/4"), but it still shoots fast and true. If you decide to go short, I'd suggest a bendy handle sinew-backed bow with flipped tips. I'm not sure if people hunt deer in Sweden, but if so, and you can find a guy who processes deer, he might just give you the legs (they usually get thrown out anyway). That's how I get my sinew. Good luck!

[Nevink]

Hello Parnell, and thank you for the motivation and input!

My draw length is 32 inches.

A holmegaard design would be interesting, they are very beautiful. But since Iīm a beginner and lack knowledge of the properties of juniper sapwood I think I want as much och the limbs to be working as possible. It feels more safe and durable. Does this make sense?

I would like to make the outer part of the limbs stiff though to make some momentum on the draw, just not as extreme as in the holmegaard design. How long would you think the stiff part ideally would be?

The slight twist in the lower limb I will leave as it is until itīs on the tillering stick and I can tell if it un-centers the string, in that case I will try to heat or steam it out.


Iīm also perplexed about the handle. I would like to make it stiff and slightly narrowed, what do you guys think?

Lastly, regarding the cross section shape of the limbs: Should I make the belly as flat or sligtly D-shaped?


Upstatenybowyer : thank you for the advice. I will keep it in mind for the other half of the tree. This piece is so precious in its lenght that I donīt want to cut anything off. We do hunt deer, my plan is to lay one down (not with bow, we donīt allow bow hunting) this winter and I will keep the sinews. Would one deer be sufficient to sinew a bow?


Currently the design Iīm considering is the following:


Slightly narrowed handle of 4-1/2" / 11,5 cm length, with the middle of the bow 1/4 of this length below the top of the handle

Width from 2 inches above and below the grip: 1-5/8 " / 4,2 cm

I keep this width to the middle of the limb, where  I start tapering it off to the nocks.

I will tiller the mid 2/4 of each limb to bend the most.

The belly will be flat on the wide 2/4 of the limbs but as it narrows I will make it proportionally D-shaped.

The outer 7" are non-bending.

Length of the bow is 79 inches / 202 cm

Draw weight : above 50 pounds

Draw lenght: 32 "



I would be thankful if someone could say: GO, or tell me what else to do before I dig in!

Blessings from Sweden

[gfugal]

you probably don't need a working handle considering your going to be making a bow 70+", so go for the one you want. Whether to do flat belly Or D shapped is matter of preference I belive as long as its long enough, so go with what you like. I agree that you don't need to sinew it. Sinew probably wouldn't add much poundage for a bow that long unless youi put a whole butt load on it. You could probably get one layer from one deer.

[Nevink]

Thank you Gfugal for your reply,

Today Iīll start and Iīll post updates here of the progress.

Happy friday folks!

[Frodolf]

Nice to see a fellow swede here! :-) Welcome to the forum!

I've made many bows from juniper, Swedish juniper nonetheless. It's a nice wood, and a very good wood to make a first bow from, if the stave is good. Juniper bows always end up thicker than, say, elm or ash so accidentally removing a little too much wood has less of an effect. It's more difficult to end up with hinges, I think.

I've made all sorts of bows from juniper – short and sinew backed, flat bows and ELB's. I think it works well for all sorts of designs.

Generally the thinner the growth rings are, the tougher the wood with juniper. Juniper with fluffy wood, big rings, can chrysal, get compression fractures, and they feel so light that it feels like they're going to break any second.

Your design sounds good to me, maybe a tad to long and wide, but better safe than sorry. I'm sure you can get at least 60 pounds out of it. Make the tiller eliptical, D-shaped. And be careful with the draw knife – it can lift splinters around knots otherwise. And you're going to find knots as you work with the bow but they are almost never a problem. I had a bow with not a single pin in the back, when the bow was finished I counted 88 knots on the belly. The bow still shots well today, one of my favorites.

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing how it goes!

[freke]

Hi, Nice to see another swedish guy here, hope you have luck with your juniper:)

[FilipT]

Isn't it better to make whole bow work at that length instead of making stiff handle? Seems like Victorian longbow of some sorts.

[Nevink]

Thank you guys for welcoming me, sure nice to see swedes here too. From what I can tell from my circle of friends very few of us have discovered the beauty of this craft.

The inner half of the limbs are now 1 - 5/8 " (40 mm) and then they are tapering off to 9/16 " ( 13 mm).
I hade the outer 8 " (20 cm) non-bending. Iīve made a flat belly design until now but have just started the tillering process so can still make it a bit rounded off ( D- shaped ) and take for example 1/5 " ( 4 mm  ) from the side and 4 from the belly on the corners, would this be enough?

I just posted a thread regarding a pin knot that I underestimated and that will have my fullest attention until I find out how to deal with (posting a picture here as well)

Otherwise, itīs all proceeding well and yes the bow feels remarkably light, I hope I have not misjudged anything but the limbs are just below 1/2 " ( 11 mm)  at the thinnest spot and still quite stiff. I took out the twist with heat and olive oil, it was like magic.

Thank you for the guidance, really appreciate it. Itīs so valuable!

[loefflerchuck]

Juniper has been my favorite wood for more than 25 years. Almost all my bows of juniper are sinew backed and under 58". I have found perfect 68+ staves and made ELB style or pyramid unbacked bows. It makes a good unbacked bow. for all my juniper bows I round the corners and crown the belly.
   If you live in a humid climate you do not have to worry. If you live in a dry climate or have the bow indoors during a cold winter with humidity often under 10% for extended periods, the bow may become too dry and brittle. You would notice the bow feels heavier, and is shooting faster than ever before it explodes into pieces. I solve this by keeping all my bows in a room with a humidifier and a RH meter. The room is kept between 40% and 50% RH.  If your stave is dry do not try to correct the twist with heat. It may break. The twist looks fine to not even worry in your bow. Just tiller out the twist. I do all my heat shaping and corrections when the wood is green. You can rehydrate the stave by soaking for 2 days to steam bend. With the bow you have started- leave the tips and handle stiff and sinew only the bending limb to make a safe good performing bow. Sapwood only bows are great. The best part about the heartwood is the cool color contrast.

[Nevink]

Thank you for the advice. I feel very privilaged to be working on such a beautiful stave. The heartwood will make a nice string on the belly of the limbs which should look awesome. Iīll keep in mind not to store it too dry. I did already correct the twist with heat but will try to stay away from this on the other stave from the same tree. Seemed to work fine this time. I would prefer not to back it. I only have 1 1/2 week of vacation before I go to sea for six weeks again and I would like to try an arrow before this.

The string is located 1/2 " to the left from the centerline of the bow in the handle. Iīll nock the arrow on this side so figured it was maybe not too bad. Will this cause a problem, for example will the bow twist when being drawn? The handle is thick and wide still but I can feel it bend slightly when bending it so I want to be careful with narrowing it.

Since the string is aligned as in the picture (seen from the bottom limb), should I leave slightly more wood on the left side to compensate for the momentum this creates? I hope my question comes across as logical.

Thank you!

[Frodolf]

Have you reduced the width of the tips to final dimensions? Otherwise you could remove wood from one side of both tips (the side the string is towards at handle) and thus sort of push the string closer to center as you make the tips narrower. Judging from the pics, you still have plenty of wood at the tips to do this. Another option is to cut out the handle asymmetrically, so that you cut the handle more from one side than the other. There is a risk otherwise that the bow will twist in your hand, yes. Not much probably, but still.   

Oh, and one more thing. Have you braced it yet? You never really know exactly how the string will align with the handle until you string it.

And one more thing. Self nocks on juniper can split sometimes. Make sure all edges are nicely rounded in the nocks. You might consider putting on some horn overlays or something, especially before shooting it. I'd recommend this considering you're aiming for a pretty heavy draw weight. This will also allow you to make the tips even narrower. 

[Nevink]

I guess this is part of becoming a bowyer. I sure learned a lot and will start on another one when I return from 6 weeks at sea. Very hard though, canīt comprehend "itīs gone"..

I thought the tiller was even and wanted to push it to 50 pounds while taking a series of pictures. I had a block at the bottom of the tillering stick so I could monitor the tillering from a distance but I couldnīt try the draw weight due to the block being in bad condition.

[JoJoDapyro]

Clear hinge.