Ash core.....

[mikekeswick]

Here are a few pictures of a new horn bow I've made. It uses ash for the core. The core is five piece. The ash was flawless so decided to give it a shot even though it is heavily ring porous....I must say even after tillering, shooting in etc I still don't fully trust the ash.....the old makers didn't use ring porous woods and it must have been for good reason....however I had read about people using ash successfully for cores and had to give it a shot myself. Also there isn't any decent maple growing here, the hornbeam I have used in the past is a major headache to get straight, untwisted pieces...there are two massive,ancient hornbeams in a wood near me but to get any useable wood means climbing up 150ft or so into the uppermost branches and having a look! Anybody who has done any tree work will know how hard it is....not to mention a bit dodgy! Hence trying this ash! Flawless ash is much easier to find
This bow is styled roughly on the Magyar hornbows without the bone plates. The next one I try will have more reflexed tips. Length is 52 inches. Drawlength is around 29/30 and it weighs about 45# @ 29. It shoots really nicely. I will chrono it sometime soon.

[Del the cat]

Nice one, and the Ash sounds like a good idea. I've got the Karpowicz book on my kindle now for some long range planning  .
Del

[Aaron H]

Looks great Mike, I like the color combo too.   What type of horn did you use?

[Parnell]

Interesting, hope it has stamina for you.  That's a great looking design, Mike.  Sure is beautiful.

[BowEd]

Sweeet looking bow Mike.Unbraced/braced/and full draw.Looking like a horn bow at full draw....lol.So this is a style after the Magyar style.Pains taking time consuming type of painted finish work looks top notch also.I'd like to hear why you think other than what the old makers said about cores that make you nervous about ash as a core.
Lately this ought to be called Mikes' site with the posting of your bows.They look great though.Congratulations on another great bow.Curious about the Chrono work to be done too.At 29" I bet it is pretty darn efficient.

[stuckinthemud]

Thanks Mike, the bow looks stunning.  How reflexed was it while the sinew was drying? Don't suppose you have any photos of it 'in build'?  My ash is a bit narrow/high crowned at 40mm diameter, can't decide whether to de-crown it or look around for something a bit wider,  any thoughts?

[loon]

Nice slender tips!

[mikekeswick]

Del- get stuck in! Have a look and see if there is any maple near you...anything ring porous is a last resort for the core!
Aaron - Thanks and I used Thai water buffalo.
Parnell - Haha! Me too!
Ed - Thanks. I just don't like the fact that is so ring porous, there is a good chance it will delaminate between the layers of latewood, the delam following the earlywood. When you look at our ash end grain the earlywood is almost more pores than wood. One of my first attempts at making a horn bow I used an elm core thinking that elm is tough as old boots, very 'bendable', reasonable steam bending, good gluing etc and it didn't even get to brace before breaking. Also when you look at the breaks on a core they are really quite strange almost like a reverse chrysal? I've broken a few cores and they are all the same. It could however have been a completely different issue than just what type of wood the core is...on my more recent bows I've used a thicker glue when gluing on the first layer of sinew (30%), gradually using less concentrated glue on the 2nd and 3rd layers. I started doing this after contacting Adam in desperation after breaking too many cores.  He told me that the concentrated glue for the first layer is very important along with the prearation of the cores back for sinewing. Eg.fairly deep grooves and multiple thin coats of glue until it looks glossy. Anyway I aim to shoot this bow a lot and really put it through its paces. Even if it lasts I don't think I would use ash for a Turkish bow too much work! This was just a quicky bow to satisfy my curiosity
Stuckinthemud - No problem I'm afraid I don't have any pictures but the tips would have been about 12 inches apart during seasoning. I didn't want to put this bow under more stress by crossing the tips. Yes you would be better with wider parts. If you are going to make something like my bow then you might be better with quarter sawn ash thus eliminating having earlywood rings running through the core.
Loon - Thanks    

[stuckinthemud]

Thanks Mike, I'll keep the ash for the D-bow I'd originally intended and find something else - ash is fairly common here, not sure how the die-back is affecting stocks but I haven't spotted any here yet, so shouldn't have too much trouble sourcing some. I do have plenty of apple drying in the shed, most of it is far from perfect but enough there to make a few 5-piece billets, only concern is that is seems to be quite brittle.

[loon]

How do you make these finishes so darn nice? They look stunning!..

Also looking forward a lot to the bow with more reflexed tips. I like those slender tips, must be pretty fast..

[stuckinthemud]

I notice some light horn bows use a birch core, would silver birch work or does it need to be yellow birch, or similar?

[mikekeswick]

I have limited experience with birch but Adam does mention yellow birch in his book. It doesn't grow here so i'm afraid I can't help with that one but if Adam has recommended it then it will work.