Author Topic: Deep question  (Read 5778 times)

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Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Deep question
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2016, 09:31:42 pm »
the primitive bow thing can really be what you make it,,
I really enjoy the feel of shooting a bow like someone thousands of years ago might have hunted with,,
I like that it takes my full concetration to be proficient,, and that there is no easy way or short cut ,,,to master the skill of making or shooting one,, it is just great fun for me,, and fullfilling to be successful,, either hunting or shooting,, :)

Offline GB

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Re: Deep question
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2016, 10:28:43 pm »
Couldn't agree more, Brad.  Well said.
Yeah, I remember when we had a President who didn't wear a tinfoil hat.

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Deep question
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2016, 06:28:24 am »
You know Deep was a good title I was thinking about this thread while working on a bow yesterday & was thinking it is impossible for me to totally make a primitive bow I'm to far gone in the technical evolution ,iPhone ,iPad ,iMac ,microwave ,4 wheel drive ,GPS navigation, satellite TV,running water ,flush toilets Ect . So my idea of Primitive is hide from my wife,Boss,family, turn off my iPhone & make some shavings & dream about hunting with my new stick if I build it right, then when I'm done pull out my digital camera take some pics & send them digitally to my Primitive Freinds.
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Deep question
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2016, 07:06:43 am »
I think it is really a question for each individual.

Materials matter. I think of it more as "natural" than "primitive". Wood, horn, stone, sinew, linen, flax, leather, products derived directly from plants or animals without modern processing methods such as glass fiber or plastics.

Some of the wood-horn-sinew bows I would be hard pressed to call "primitive" in one sense but I do think they meet the definition in other ways such as belonging to a different past age and made with natural materials.

Does the wood know it was shaped with a band saw and steel tools instead of stone? What if is was rough cut by steel and finished with stone? So again I go with materials more than anything

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Deep question
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2016, 08:14:28 am »
I wanted to expand on this a little by comparing two bows. The first would be a "War Bow" circa 1400 England and the second what is often termed "Ishi's Bow"

Materials:

Warbow: Yew Stave, Horn for Nocks, Possibly Hide Glue for Nocks

Ishi's Bow: Mountain Juniper, Sinew, Salmon Skin Glue, Buckskin

Design:

Warbow: Simple Self Bow with Horn Nocks no Grip

Ishi's Bow: Sinew Backed Recurved Flat Bow with Buckskin Grip

Construction Method:

Warbow: as best we know shaped with steel or iron tools

Ishi's Bow:The wood was obtained by splitting a limb from a tree and utilizing the outer layers, including the sap wood. By scraping and rubbing on sandstone, he shaped and finished it. The recurved tips of the bow he made by bending the wood backward over a heated stone. Held in shape by cords and binding to another piece of wood, he let his bow season in a dark, dry place. Here it remained from a few months to years, according to his needs. After being seasoned he backed it with sinew. First he made a glue by boiling salmon skin and applying it to the roughened back of the bow. When it was dry he laid on long strips of deer sinew obtained from the leg tendons. By chewing these tendons and separating their fibers, they became soft and adhesive. Carefully overlapping the ends of the numerous fibers he covered the entire back very thickly. At the nocks he surrounded the wood completely and added a circular binding about the bow.

During the process of drying he bound the sinew tightly to the bow with long, thin strips of willow bark. After several days he removed this bandage and smoothed off the edges of the dry sinew, sized the surface with more glue and rubbed everything smooth with sandstone. Then he bound the handgrip for a space of four inches with a narrow buckskin thong.

Conclusion:

Made using "primitive" tools Ishi's bow appears to have a more sophisticated design and method of construction including backing with sinew (use of multiple materials in conjunction to improve their properties) and heat manipulation. In contrast the War Bow, although made using steel tools by a more technologically advanced culture, was a more primitive design in many ways being a simple self bow relying on the inherit qualities of the wood.

Both bows were ideally suited for the task they were designed for, Ishi's for hunting and the War Bow, when allied with a sophisticated tactical doctrine, for war.

But which would you consider more "primitive" the  sophisticated design from the primitive culture or the primitive design from the sophisticated culture? And in this case is it the design of the tools, steel versus stone, or the design of the bow that wins out?