Physical balance

[Dances with squirrels]

Tuomo, there IS such a thing as limb timing. You more or less said so yourself... "As long as the nocking point is right, the bow is behaving well." Yes, because moving the nock point moves the string hand fulcrum which affects... yep, relative limb balance and limb timing. That's why folks who switch to 3 under have to move the nock point up, to re-strengthen the bottom limb, to regain shooting qualities.

[Badger]

When I start my initial tillering I always sit the bow on center and pull from center until the limbs are dead even (and heavy) and the bow sits perfectly still when drawn 12-15". Once I get it balanced I shift the bow to sit in the same place my hand will, that almost always makes my bottom limb tilt downward, so I start on that limb and balance it out again. I start out on center because its easier for the initial tiller. If it doesn't balance on your tree it cant balance in hand without you shifting your hand, and that's no good. It makes for a loud, inaccurate bow that thumps your hand.

  That is almost exactly how I do it.

[RBLusthaus]

When I start my initial tillering I always sit the bow on center and pull from center until the limbs are dead even (and heavy) and the bow sits perfectly still when drawn 12-15". Once I get it balanced I shift the bow to sit in the same place my hand will, that almost always makes my bottom limb tilt downward, so I start on that limb and balance it out again. I start out on center because its easier for the initial tiller. If it doesn't balance on your tree it cant balance in hand without you shifting your hand, and that's no good. It makes for a loud, inaccurate bow that thumps your hand.

  That is almost exactly how I do it.

I agree - as it is how I do it as well.  Does this not mean, though, that the tiller balance around your hand holding the bow is a prime factor - since if it is not balanced, your hand will have to unnaturally hold the bow "vertical" to keep the shot straight? 

[PEARL DRUMS]

Russ that is exactly what it means.

[BowEd]

My tillering is pretty much the same way as Pearly does his tillering too.I have lines every 2" across the background both ways to make 2" squares to confirm my eye.Did that way long ago when starting to make bows,but really don't need them any more really.A 20" draw check position of tips like said usually is good out to 28" for me.
At that point if there is any difference there is'nt very much draw weight loss to balance them and it's just a matter of where removal is taken then.Usually evenly the whole length because it is evenly bending limbs.Along the way I get an 1/8" positive tiller the whole length of the limb.Shooting it confirms the feel of things in my hand provided the string nocking point is pretty close.

[RBLusthaus]

Russ that is exactly what it means.

PD - I get that -  I was really asking if Badger now agrees or is still thinking that the balance issue is a non issue. 

[PEARL DRUMS]

Its a non issue only if your okay with sliding nocks up and down your string and adjusting your hand placement. I mark exactly where my pass will be before the bow ever gets close to bending. I make a 4" grip and my pass is always 2" above center. I don't adjust that and see no reason to adjust it. I adjust the limbs strength rather to match my markings.

[Dances with squirrels]

I tiller differently than you guys then. I place the bow on the tree the way I hold it, and pull the string from where I'll draw it from the very first pull. I can tell if the limbs are balanced relative to my holds by pulling the string just an inch or two from brace height on the tree.... actually I know before brace, with the long string. I want to know exactly what it needs as early as possible in the tillering, begin balancing right away, and can't think of a reason to pull it other than how I'll shoot it... but I can think of reasons not to

[PEARL DRUMS]

Jeff that's how I do it at well. I simply start on center until I'm out to say 18-20", its easier for me to see initial bending. Then I slide the grip down to match my hand hold and I always hook on where my middle finger would be.

[BowEd]

Actually good floor tillering a bow very close to your draw weight reduces set in my book.Coming from floor tillering to even brace within 5 to 10 pounds your initial draw weight at your draw length is an art and if heat treating is involved so the better retaining your treatment.Going on a different subject here I know though.Anyway I tell ya if it stands the test of time and holds profile/hits where you want/and has very little hand shock that's all that's required.

[DC]

OK if I want to get this bow to physically balance on it's geographic center I'm going to have to remove quite a bit of wood. I've now quadruple checked my measurements and the heavy limb is smaller so there is denser wood in there or something. However the tiller looks OK(ish). I'm thinking the best place to remove wood will be the tips(more bang for my buck and less effect on the tiller). Does that sound like the smart thing to do?

As added info this is more of a deflex/ recurve then an RD. It is an almost flawless piece of Yew. I had left the tips 3/4" wide and tillered it to almost complete. I took it out to shoot it and it was horrible. With my usual aiming point the arrows hit 18" low at 20yds. Broke one tip on the concrete block that the target sits on. Also up until now I was unsure what handshock felt like. Now I know!! Since then I have reduced the tips to 1/2" and reduced the deflex  by two inches while heat treating the he!! out of it. It's resting now.

[BowEd]

I believe you are on the right track there bud.

[bow101]

Also up until now I was unsure what handshock felt like.

I have broke about 7 bows and have 7 survivors.   The only time I felt hand shock was on my Ski Bow.  Hence limbs built from a pair of skis.   

[Badger]

Russ that is exactly what it means.

PD - I get that -  I was really asking if Badger now agrees or is still thinking that the balance issue is a non issue.

   I always check the ballance but only because I get a kick out of seeing how well a finsihed bow ballances. As far as I know I have never had one far enough out to really pay much attention to it. So my answer would be I do usually check the physical ballance but I don't base it on anything or do anything about it. I just make the limbs look the same and ballance out the tiller I am looking for.

[Dances with squirrels]

I lay it out asymmetrically so the static balance point/geographic center is about 3/4" above handle center... right on my middle finger. I like how such a bow carries, is quick and natural to point, and how it works with the tillering process. This design puts the static balance point, string fulcrum, and dynamic balance point at full draw all within a fraction of an inch of each other... for me... which causes the bow to behave better during the draw and facilitates tillering for dynamic balance earlier in the draw.