Author Topic: Victorian Longbows  (Read 9370 times)

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Offline jaxenro

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Victorian Longbows
« on: September 29, 2016, 08:55:02 pm »
Hi

Been looking for information on Victorian era longbows which I understand differ from medieval or traditional ELB in several ways (and I am probably missing some)

1. Different belly woods used including lemonwood, oak, yew, osage, and ???
2. Typically lighter weight draws 50-60 for men, 30-40 for women
3. Often backed with various materials among them canvas, silk, linen, rawhide, ?wood?, and ???
4. Typically had a non working or non bending handle
5. Usually had a leather, velvet, or cord grip of some type often with an integral arrow rest

I'm not sure how true all of those are but it's the start I have.

Can anyone point me towards a good book, preferably written during the era, with more details? I have been poking around and have found some are reprinted online so pdf's would be perfect also

thanks

Offline Badger

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 10:02:09 pm »
  Something else you will notice on those bows is that they are all about the same width. The tiller shape usually reflects the approc draw weight. The very light weight bows are whip tillered while the 50# to 60# bows are more full compass.

Offline Hamish

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 10:58:21 pm »
Most of the true Victorian era( as opposed to similar designs in the 20thC, made up until the fibreglass era), were either unbacked lancewood, or lemonwood, some of yew either self or backed with yew sapwood, hickory, or bamboo (tonkin cane, not moso or madake).
A lot of new world tropical hardwoods were employed for bellywood due to their ability to resist compression, and chrysalling.
Bulletwood/beefwood, Ipe/Bethabara, snakewood, rubywood, were employed is this manner. A bow from these materials could be made much narrower than  yew or lemonwood,  less than 1" wide for a 60lb bow, sometimes as narrow as 3/4 of an inch, depending upon the type of wood.
Of the antique Victorian bows that I have personally seen, none of them have obvious Buchanan dips like most of the 20thC bows I have seen, or read about in books by Duff, or Bickerstaffe. I couldn't tell you how much bend there is in the handle, I'd say the range  goes from full compass to stiff handle, depending upon the bowyer, and how early the bow was made in their career. Stiffer handles became more popular really only late in the 19thC, more so in the 20thC, after the Victorian era. Even then a stiff handle can be done without obvious dips, by leaving more wood on the belly, either side of the grip. I haven't seen a Buchanan dip on a bow made before the 20thC, even one made by Buchanan or his protoge'/successors. That doesn't mean they weren't made, I just haven't seen any.

The Victorian longbow never had a true arrow rest. Sometimes the top of the handle wrapping might be thick enough to act as a rest. They often had inlaid arrow passes, mainly mother of pearl, or ocasionally metal like brass, gold or silver. They always had horn nocks, usually cow, or water buffalo, vary rarely some other exotic animal, or cast metal.
I have seen what Badger is talking about, same width, different tillershape, for different draw weights. I usually associate them with the 20thC lemonwood high  production bows, from bowyers like Stemmler.

mikekeswick

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 04:00:54 am »
Start off at 1 inch wide through the center 12 inch section, taper to 3/4 12 inches from the nocks then into 1/2 nocks. Narrow as you go and feel what the wood can take. Elliptical tiller.
Hickory backings and pretty much any dense tropical for the belly/cores.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 03:31:00 pm »
I used to to be very disparaging of Victorian bows and bowyers until I went to a private bow museum. It opened my eyes to all sorts of possibilities and I was in awe of their skill.
The bows were slim, elegant and the nocks were tiny. I was looking at one Yew bow then I realised... no, it's not self Yew, it's Yew belly and Yew back but it's not one bit of wood! I saw belly patches, all sorts of stuff. Opened my eyes and humbled me.
Taught me a lesson, sometimes it;' best to shut the mouth and open the eyes and the ears.
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline PatM

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 05:39:23 pm »
What did you not like about them originally? Was it just because you considered anything less than self yew selling out?

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 09:05:25 pm »
I used to collect Victorian era dirk knives made in Sheffield the quality is something you see only rarely today. There was a time from say 1850 to 1914 where English craftsmanship in so many areas achieved a level of functional elegance combined with quality of materials and construction that has rarely been surpassed

Offline FilipT

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 04:18:23 am »
I saw its some sort of bickering among the bowyers about these victorian longbows. There are some who literally despise this era of archery. Like this "lawn archery" is some sort of a bad thing. Wow, people in 19th century (although upper class) wanted to have fun with bows, just like we do and that is a crime apparently!

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2016, 05:46:12 am »
What did you not like about them originally? Was it just because you considered anything less than self yew selling out?
Yeah, a bit of that, but I s'pose I thought them fussy and under weight ladies toys. After all some archery in those days was just and excuse for men and women to be able to mingle.
There's a TV series "Victoria" with an archery scene in it. V glamorous actress in full vitorian costume being coached/flirted with by a prince... how romantic!
Del
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Offline DC

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2016, 12:19:29 pm »
just and excuse for men and women to be able to mingle.


I can name an awful lot of activities that fall into that category ;D ;D

Offline PaulN/KS

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2016, 01:40:27 pm »
What did you not like about them originally? Was it just because you considered anything less than self yew selling out?
Yeah, a bit of that, but I s'pose I thought them fussy and under weight ladies toys. After all some archery in those days was just and excuse for men and women to be able to mingle.
There's a TV series "Victoria" with an archery scene in it. V glamorous actress in full vitorian costume being coached/flirted with by a prince... how romantic!
Del


Well, I think that "mingling" with women can be fun..  ;)

Offline paco664

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2016, 04:54:41 pm »
I used to collect Victorian era dirk knives made in Sheffield the quality is something you see only rarely today. There was a time from say 1850 to 1914 where English craftsmanship in so many areas achieved a level of functional elegance combined with quality of materials and construction that has rarely been surpassed
the comment on the craftsmanship made me think of the time i went to see the King Tut exhibit here... there was a golden dagger that was actually on his mummy...
the workmanship was incredible... absolutely stunning... i stood staring for a good 20mins before my wife finally drug me away...

i was born 100years too late...
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2016, 05:16:20 pm »
The Tut dagger is amazing. There was a write up in blade magazine about an exact replica made and how difficult it was. I remember just forming the gold beads took him a while as the torch slumber blow them off the bench if he wasn't careful and he had to devise a correct way to fasten them. Forging the gold blade was a story in itself. It was a famous custom maker Buster Warenski and was selling near one million at one point

Offline paco664

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2016, 11:35:19 pm »
The Tut dagger is amazing. There was a write up in blade magazine about an exact replica made and how difficult it was. I remember just forming the gold beads took him a while as the torch slumber blow them off the bench if he wasn't careful and he had to devise a correct way to fasten them. Forging the gold blade was a story in itself. It was a famous custom maker Buster Warenski and was selling near one million at one point
amazing...
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Victorian Longbows
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2016, 04:17:53 pm »
So some people scoffed at the Victorian longbows.  We still have that attitude cropping up today when people receive a board bow in a bow exchange.  We have even codified a rule for proper scoffing when we say "effing-glass" on this forum.  Mostly, we are passing it off as a joking manner.  But still, it is something we are all guilty of engaging in this behavior. 

Mostly, I am pointing the finger at myself.  I really need to knock that stuff off and just concentrate on the positive stuff. 

Whatever you choose to make, jaxenro, post away so we can all enjoy it!
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.