synthetic korean bow stuff

[loon]

Another long mundane loon post..

The bow in question is made out of carbon/fiberglass/wood, so I'm posting it here. It's a 53" korean style bow - short static recurves.

It shoots louder with this 11 strand D-10 knotted string (the traditional korean separate loop string knot) than it did with the original fast-flight thicker string. It had something like 6 1/4" brace height, now it's 5 3/4" or so.

Maybe a somewhat thick, shorter B-55 string would be very quiet? Maybe 6" brace height.. they did use silk traditionally after all..

I shoot with thumb ring on the right, so I can try to apply torque to try to avoid the arrow hitting the bow... I tried but it was still loud.

There didn't seem to be too much damage in the arrow pass.

How can I tell if noise is the string or the arrow hitting the bow?

If I made a thicker D-10 string, would it be quieter?

would 1 full twist per 2 inches of string excluding loops be okay? Though I noticed the loops were kinda twisted to the side from the string twist when drawing. Interestingly, it seems like Turkish archers avoided any twist in their continuous strings, thinking it'd twist the bows. Instead, to prevent ballooning, they wrapped short sections of serving along the string.. but Korean archers, even with their finicky hornbows, seem to twist their strings quite a bit. So maybe the no-twist thing wasn't really justified..

thanks 

either way i'll update on what happens...





the handle wrap is just a piece of suede leather with hemp cord wrapped over it, no glue. very simple and seems rather solid

[mullet]

Your Brace height is probably too low. Why switch the string if it came with FastFlight and change the Brace height? Is the knot supposed to fall on the Bridge? Seems that would be like hitting it with a club.

I also noticed that when I shot my Glass/Horn Hybrid with a thumb ring it was loud.

[loon]

Thanks for replying

The knot is supposed to fall on the bridge, but maybe a bit higher... hm... but maybe you're right.

So, the original fast flight string... I tied a quadruple constrictor knot on the original string to try to make a nock point, since they supposedly look nice and don't come loose easily like a bunch of overhands could. I tried to move it around and accidentally tightened it too much, it was too high, too tight, I couldn't untie it. So I tried to cut it off, was frustrated... ended up cutting through the string. Broke 3 or 4 strands.

Ha ha.

protip: if you absolutely have to use a knife on a bowstring, please do not put the edge against the string but alongside it (parallel, not perpendicular..)

And that was after I spent an hour and a half cleaning it.

The brace height was also 1/4" above recommended then... now it's the minimum recommended..

[Swamp Thang]

Your Brace height is probably too low. Why switch the string if it came with FastFlight and change the Brace height? Is the knot supposed to fall on the Bridge? Seems that would be like hitting it with a club.


The brace height was my problem years ago as well

I also noticed that when I shot my Glass/Horn Hybrid with a thumb ring it was loud.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

My new glass/wood turkish bow is pretty loud but I think in this case it's more a function of the materials, this bow is light, I mean really light, when I was unpacking it and it was still wrapped in bubble wrap I thought they had sent me three arrows, that's how much this bow weighs, lol. So when I shoot it the loud noise it makes has a tone to it like it's the glass itself making the noise as there's no mass to absorb any vibration so it sounds like it almost rings for a half second.

[mullet]

I found when I shoot bare thumb it is not really as loud. Also, a heavier arrow will dampen it.

[loon]

ok so I made a string that actually didn't have loose strands, and higher brace height, and the bow was nice and quiet again!

How I made a Korean traditional style string that's been satisfactory for 15-20 shots today... (a lot of steps)

-note length of string to knots or start of loops (that is, excluding loops) that you need.

-tying two duplex nails or something similar to table legs with a slipped surgeon's knot of sorts (good for tightening). they should be around 2-3 cm more distance than the length recorded in the previous step. Of course you could just have two nails and hammer them to a board..

-wrapping 12 strands of D10 (or D97) around them

-removing one nail, put one end of the string on the table and tie loose ends (**tag ends of the continuous string**) with zeppelin bend, allowing for some slack (square knot broke on my first string..) (I did not allow the zeppelin knot to be right at one of the loop knots, but close to it. I think I'll serve over it.)

-pull from one side with an awl or something with a tied-to-table nail on the other hard until all the strands get the same tension..

-wax the string. rub it a lot, I used synthetic bowstring wax

- twist with the awl while pulling. note the direction. clockwise may be best if you shoot thumb draw with your draw hand as right hand, correct me if i'm wrong (I did clockwise)

-get 14 strands of D10 wrapped continuously, about 24" long. no need to tie loose ends

-put an awl on the end of the 'loop' of that 24" "string" that doesn't have the loose ends (both loose ends should be on the other side), and twist in the SAME direction as the main string (I did clockwise)

-follow this to tie it. I'll have to expand on this knot later from my experimenting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hYESA-GDhI
If anyone wants to translate anything important that he says, I would really appreciate it!

- make the tied on loop so that, once you've tightened it by hand, the knot would rest just short of the edge of the string bridge closest to the tip.

- if the loops want to twist when you string or draw the bow, twist the string more. Again, the twist of the loops and string should be in the same direction and they should look about as twisted so there is no tendency for the loops to twist when the bow is drawn.

- Hopefully your brace height is good. The loops will slip a bit after some shooting, ideally the knots should be in the part of the bridges closest to the tip I think. Now you can serve starting from the center of the string towards the loop going on the top limb. Enjoy

I think if I had a jig for it, it'd be faster to make a modern style continuous string.
*from what I've just seen these few days*, the advantage of this string is the loops are softer, you can twist it more and there's no tendency for the loops to twist, and since the string is so twisted it may absorb more shock. But you can probably twist a modern style continuous string quite a bit before the loops want to twist significantly when the bow's drawn..
The disadvantage is how annoying it was for me to deal with the loose ends of the main string, the knot is kind of tricky and the knot slips at the beginning. And it probably takes longer to make. I've never made a true modern continuous string though. But it looks easier.

To prevent the loops from twisting, I have to put A LOT of twist in the main string, something like 5 per inch I don't know. But it looks good... and appears to shoot well...

Hope this is interesting and not tl;dr :p

[loon]

haha I think I might try to fletch my carbon arrows for this bow with hide glue... since it's all I have besides superglue and should be easily reversible but strong enough

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

That's a pretty fancy knot, looks nice and tidy. The turkish bowstring knot is a little simpler:

[mullet]

Are you shooting arrows with feathers or Vanes?

[loon]

Are you shooting arrows with feathers or Vanes?

I got 3" or 3.5" feathers for the carbons I'll hopefully fletch later today, yesterday I shot cheap chinese bamboos with feathers. I have 3 korean gungdo arrows that are carbon with vanes, they shoot fine. they don't even measure spine.. a vane fell out of them, ugh. maybe i'll refletch them with feathers one day.

and i actually have duco cement so maybe i'll try that

I want to make bamboo arrows too but it's a lot of work and carbon is nice, light, straight and consistent

That's a pretty fancy knot, looks nice and tidy. The turkish bowstring knot is a little simpler:

yeah I've done that one before, but I don't think it looks as nice? and not sure if it's as secure with dyneema. Korean bow, korean knot :pp

I'm going to take the tag ends of the loops and serve them into the main string (I guess that'd be better than burning them..), and serve over the zeppelin bend.
I'm not sure if the zeppelin bend could get loose and come off from rubbing wax vigorously into the string, it seemed like it almost did at one point.. so maybe a triple fisherman's bend would be better, but way more annoying to tie..