Red Oak bows keep taking too much set. Druid's bow

[Badger]

  Curious what your bows weigh. I show them projecting out at about 13 to 14 oz for a 70" bow drawing 45#. A rounded belly would also contribute to set. It really doesn't take much set on a full compass tiller to add up to 3".

[Dictionary]

So Mike, to sum up what you said...

For red oak, I should make it thin and wider or if it's narrow and thick, then tiller it so it bends very little in the inner limbs, making it bend more midlimb and to the tips--elliptical or even slightly whip ended?

Unsure of physical weight, Badger. I'm limited on my items in this small apartment.

JoJo, I've made enough bows to be able to gauge the weight I am at When using the mirror only method. When using a stick, however, I do use a fishing scale to never exceed a certain weight.



Anybody remember this guy? Druid. His bows were my inspiration. Would this tiller be more suited for narrower red oak? Less bend inner limbs, more toward the outer.

[Eric Krewson]

I think you are doing a good job with what you have to work with. I used to cringe if my bows got a bit of set, no more, I don't worry about it if they are good shooters.

[willie]

Would this tiller be more suited for narrower red oak?

it might make a difference in how it feels in the hand as you shoot, and as Eric says, some of what make a bow a sweet shooter cannot always be easily measured with a ruler.

my guess is that by working the inner less, (and making the outer work proportionately harder) it will still require more length or width to make your desired weight without set. Trapping could help as Mike says, and it would be interesting to see what you come up with, all other things being equal.

Are you experimenting out of a curiosity about the limits of red oak? Other than making a bow with "less set", what are some of your other design goals? Seems like you have a good eye for smooth curves. 

[JW_Halverson]

Would this tiller be more suited for narrower red oak?

it might make a difference in how it feels in the hand as you shoot, and as Eric says, some of what make a bow a sweet shooter cannot always be easily measured with a ruler.

my guess is that by working the inner less, (and making the outer work proportionately harder) it will still require more length or width to make your desired weight without set. Trapping could help as Mike says, and it would be interesting to see what you come up with, all other things being equal.

Are you experimenting out of a curiosity about the limits of red oak? Other than making a bow with "less set", what are some of your other design goals? Seems like you have a good eye for smooth curves.

I started developing an eye for those smooth curves as a young man.  Now that my hair is greying and my middle spreading I make bows instead.

[Dictionary]

Willie- I'm limited in wood choice living in the high plains desert right now, so I'm trying to make this Red Oak work for me. I'd like to make a fast shooter with limited set pulling at 50#. I may either leave the next one full length-72 ntn and tiller so the inner limbs work very little, or go for a wider board and make a shorter(60-64 ntn) bendy handle pyramid bow. Thanks for the advice to you and everyone else.

JW- You've gone down in the history books with that one.

[sleek]

I remember Druid well. I dont know what happened to him. He was a fine photographer and bowyer. His wAr bows wete amazing and his wood quality was never pristine. I wish I knew why he dropped off the internet?

[Joec123able]

I add in reflex before tillering. If you start bending a piece of wood that starts off stick straight, it's going to settle in some.

[Badger]

  If you are working with red oak keep the belly flat. I have done countless red oak bows that have taken very little set. Most of mine are about 64" long, 8" stiff handle and fades and 50# and 28". But they are much wider than yours usually about 2" wide. If I am making it from 1 1/2" lumber I use a bend through the handle design and go about 68" long. I let the mass weight dictate the tiller shape. If I am running down about 13 or 14 oz I use a full circular tiller, at 16 to 18 oz I start getting a lot more elliptical with the handle only slightly bending. Most of the time with red oak 1 1/2" wide will call for a slightly bending handle.

[FilipT]

I remember Druid well. I dont know what happened to him. He was a fine photographer and bowyer. His wAr bows wete amazing and his wood quality was never pristine. I wish I knew why he dropped off the internet?

Saw on local Serbian forum that it was for personal reasons, not sure if he even builds bows anymore.

[mikekeswick]

So Mike, to sum up what you said...

For red oak, I should make it thin and wider or if it's narrow and thick, then tiller it so it bends very little in the inner limbs, making it bend more midlimb and to the tips--elliptical or even slightly whip ended?

Thinner and wider will give less set because the wood is strained less. Don't try to make narrow and thick red oak bows... Period!  To make narrow and deep bows requires an elastic wood ideally with low bwending resistance eg. yew.
No you miss read what I'm saying about tiller shape. You must remember these things are quite subtle. I most definitely do not mean whip tiller.....I also didn't say that it should bend 'very little in the inner limbs' - again tiller advice is subtle. If you did what you are suggesting you would have the same problem but your set but would in the outer limbs.
Another way to tiller literally any any design is to watch where the set appears along the limb. You should have set. Where that set is shows you how you strained the wood. Set should be virtually non existant in the inner limbs. A little mid limb and the rest in the outer limbs.
Trapping works very well on these tension strong woods. Ignore at your peril!!! HAHA!
Also start bend testing your wood before starting let the info you get determine how you design and layout your bow. Think if you were designing a bridge to hold a certain load....a key thing you would do is test the strength of the materials you had to make the bridge. Steel would make a slim, sturdy bridge and lots of triangles would useful. Stone would be different and a wooden bridge would be different again....however if designed correctly all three bridges would carry the load. Design, design, design.
It is all about understanding the particular piece of woods properties and THEN designing the bow.
I suggest getting the Traditional Bowyers Bible series of books. They have all this information

I would also not change profile/length etc until you have this one wired. Then move on. If we keep flitting from one thing to the next it can be hard to see what lessons the wood is trying to teach you.