In case you didn't have enuf 2 worry about...

[Jim Davis]

Erik inspired me to do some reading on nuke plants. They all seem to have backup diesel generators for short term power outages and I read  a mention that they are able to switch over and use some of their own power to keep their cooling systems going. I'd like to see an official site with a more direct comment on this.

[Josh B]

Yep...even after SCRAMing the reactor, the fuel still has to be cooled or it gets hot and melts through the reactor...and pretty much anything else it comes in contact with.  With no power, there's no coolant being pumped and you have what happened in Japan.  They had emergency generators, but the tsunami knocked those out.  I would like to think that emergency generators for power plants are hardened against EMP, but I wouldn't bet on it.  Even if they are hardened to some degree, I have to wonder how well.  I live 150 mi upwind from the closest one, but the fallout from the Western plants will likely land in the plains like most of the fall out from atomic testing in New Mexico did in the 50's.  In most SHTF  theories meltdowns are more of a long term tertiary problem for most since the immediate threats to life will be many and immediate such as illness, violence, exposure, thirst and starvation.  Man...we're painting a pretty ugly picture in this thread.  Lets hope this discussion remains forever academic.  Josh

[sleek]

Under the reactors are several layers of containment to capture all melt down in a bowl to prevent contamination. It doesn't just fall through, there is steel and concrete designed to contain the fuel in the event of a melt down.

[Eric Krewson]

Not so Sleek, at Three Mile Island the containment vessel was almost breeched.

A quote from a possible meltdown scenario;

A reactor core meltdown destroys two of the barriers between radioactive material and the environment: the fuel pellets and the fuel rods. Consequently, a vast amount of radioactive material gets released into the reactor vessel. The molten core debris can breach the reactor vessel, as almost happened at Three Mile Island, eliminating another barrier. The large amount of hydrogen gas produced by the overheated reactor core en route to meltdown can explode, challenging or even breaching the containment structure, the final barrier.
 

[Josh B]

Acknowledging that nuke plants are at the very least a serious potential threat in the scenario we're discussing, can we move back towards the original problem of how to get home.  None of us are nuclear physicists and I see little point in a continued Google war.  Lol!  How about sharing ideas of essential gear that you would want in such an event.  Movement tactics.  Hydration strategies and so on.  I'm always rethinking what I would need vs. what I want to carry on my back.  Having humped a 100 pound pack for 26 mles...twice...back in my prime, I can tell you that is a very important matter to consider.  Especially since I'm along ways from my prime.  Josh

[Eric Krewson]

On my last trip to the Smokies 5 years ago I hiked up to the Spence Field Shelter on the AT, there I met a couple who had about 125 miles to go to finish the entire AT trec. We talked for hours,they explained how they started overweight (themselves) with 60# packs and how they refined their gear as they hiked from Maine south. When I met them they were stickfigures, his pack weighed 23#, her's 21#, they had food, shelter, clothes, water and water purifying equipment (UV light stick). They resupplied at any small town they came near, always at a Dollar Store which they said had anything they needed.

The gal had walked most of the way with horrendous blisters on her feet, it wasn't until she found some neoprene socks that she got relief.

Perhaps if we really want to be prepared for a SHTF event we should study the experiences of modern folk who have taken on a long and arduous journey like the AT.

[Jim Davis]

Yes, I agree with picking the brains of people who have done this kind of journey. There are differences in this scenario though. After a couple of weeks, there will be NO food in stores. Traveling the Oregon Trail would have been several magnitudes easier, because of having something edible within reach.

[sleek]

Pioneers did it, natives did it, trappers did it, Louis and Clark did it. Its very very doable. Food water shelter, none of that is complicated. The hard part is staying alive from all the masses who dont know how to do it. You must avoid detection, or you must join a group and become a tribe for strength in numbers.

[Josh B]

Those folks with that kind of experience would definitely be an invaluable source of information.  I was thinking of the routing on this particular scenario and the difficulties involved.  For instance southern Idaho's lava flow region would be very tough to traverse cross country and Western Wyoming is practically desert with few water sources other than the green river.  I think my initial plan would be to angle up towards targhee pass into Montana, follow the Madison up towards 94 avoiding the actual I-94 roadway work over to the Yellowstone and follow along it and try to acquire a canoe through barter if possible and take the Yellowstone to the Missouri in the canoe.  You'd be a sitting duck paddling during daylight, but at night you could cover a lot of distance.  Of course the Yellowstone and the Missouri will take you by a lot of cities that are best avoided. But that would be my initial plan if I absolutely had to get home in the quickest manner.  Thoughts?  Josh

[sleek]

Night time travel is a must. Canoe is risky. Its open area travelbut if you move fast enough through populated areas you may be fine. I can see a sitiation whete you arent the only guy out there and folks may try to rob and kill you.

Seems the faster you can makes your travel the better your chances are. Id cover as much distance as i could as fast as i could in my initial days not worried about people too much. It will take some time for society to break down and folks to loose their minds. As time goes, id start being more cautious.  So maybe id travel roads first. And travel waterways if possible. It really is a race against time. If you know how to sail and the river is wide enough that could help too.

[sleek]

Actually as i put more thought into it, im wrong about the roads being safe at first. Thats where the panic will start. Every one on the road will be stranded. Panic will happen tjere immediately.  Back to hiding in the woods.

With the trip being so dangerous, and me so far away, why am i risking the trip home? Unless my family is not with me, im staying put.
 

[Josh B]

On your first point....I figured you would come to that realization with a little  more thought.  However it won't just be on the roads.  Ever see what happens to store inventories when a hurricane is coming?  That should tell you a lot about just how unprepared most people are even for  temporary inconveniences.  Now think nationwide, no power grid, no trucks bringing the necessities and probably no controlling legal authority.  That thin blue line is way to thin in the best of times. 
   That brings us to your second point.  Aside from you being far from kith and kin and them needing you home ASAP being a key point to the  proposed scenario, even if you were with your family  but far from home staying put means becoming a refugee relying on the benevolence and generosity of strangers who don't know you or trust you and have little to nothing to give if they did.  Think about the word "refugee"  do you really want to have that term apply to you and your family? Just more food for thought.  Josh

[sleek]

Pays to have a bug out bag and plan. My wife and i have a set meeting place should we ever get seperated due to an event.

[Josh B]

Pays to have a bug out bag and plan. My wife and i have a set meeting place should we ever get seperated due to an event.

The fact that your wife will even consider the possibility of a disaster with long term ramifications puts you well ahead of me in preparedness. My wife won't even entertain the hint of a hypothetical SHTF scenario.  As far as she's concerned Wal-Mart will always be 5 miles away and will always have anything she needs.  It's frustrating to say the least.  Josh

[sleek]

I hope she is right.  But i dont think so. It doesnt take mich for this house of cards to fall. It has before. WWI and II great depression, Revolutionary and Civil war. Those were on a national and world scale. Then look at smaller areas like Ferguson Mo, with man made chaos based on geo political events. Or natural disasters like Katrina.

Fact. There WILL be times in all areas where thestores are not an option. For how long depends only on severity of the problem and reaction to it. Politics can escalate a benign one into a large one if a point is to be made of it. 


In the gear list,  we would be sucking if we didnt have at least two pair of shoes. I went through two pair in the last 3 month just working. You need your feet healthy and dry. A second pair can save you.