Author Topic: Limb Length  (Read 5011 times)

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Offline Badger

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2016, 10:11:39 pm »
  I am kind of teasing you here because I argue this with a lot of guys. If you look at the big factory manufacturers they don't tiller different for 3 under. Most guys I know tiller a bow to look even at full draw and show the arrow level with the arrow shelf or top of hand so you certainly are not alone. But it has just never made any sense to me. If the string remained in the same position when you released it you would have a big loose kink in the string. The bow has to follow the path of the most resistance which is the arrow. I actually tiller mine right below the arrow and I normally come out about 1/8 positive tiller which is about the same as everyone else so it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference. Just kind of fun to argue.

Offline Joec123able

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2016, 12:12:01 am »
Usually my arrow rests are around 2" above the center of bow, I've never worried about length of the limbs, I just keep them the same length. My main bow that has been shot thousands and thousands of times has no signs of one limb gaining more sting follow, both limbs have the same amount of set as when I made it.
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Offline Pappy

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 04:09:44 am »
Steve the factory bow company's may not but if you order a custom bow they want to know if you shoot split or 3 under. I once saw G.Fred do a demo on 3 under versus split with a light weight Big Horn bow.
It was tillered for split, it looked very even and good tiller at full draw, then he pulled it back 3 under and the bottom limb bent way more, I think it matters and always tiller my bottom limb for someone shooting 3 under stiffer. I usually only make even limb bow but for a 3 under shooter top limb longer wouldn't a bad thing I don't believe. :)
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Offline Badger

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 04:59:38 am »
Steve the factory bow company's may not but if you order a custom bow they want to know if you shoot split or 3 under. I once saw G.Fred do a demo on 3 under versus split with a light weight Big Horn bow.
It was tillered for split, it looked very even and good tiller at full draw, then he pulled it back 3 under and the bottom limb bent way more, I think it matters and always tiller my bottom limb for someone shooting 3 under stiffer. I usually only make even limb bow but for a 3 under shooter top limb longer wouldn't a bad thing I don't believe. :)
 Pappy

    Pappy, you made my point for me, when he pulled the bow the tiller went off. When he shot the bow the tiller went back to normal because he no longer had his fingers on the string. It is a big nyth!  Of course the tiller will go off when you pull it 3" lower, but when you shoot the bow it doesn't go back the same way you pull it.

Offline Pappy

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2016, 05:59:45 am »
Yep, I was always curious about  how a bow shot with people that string walk. I have watched a few in the last few years and it seems the father the target the better arrow flight they got because they were closer to the nock point. I am trying to get what you are saying wrapped up in my head, :-\ I am pretty dense so it may take a while.  ;) :) :)
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Offline BowEd

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2016, 08:05:35 am »
bow101....I do tighten the nock fit but still shoot mediterranean style.Super glue build up or heat and pressure bending are my solutions for that.Over time and being a favorite arrow they can wear a bit.That's just the way it is and it's the way I was shown to shoot by watching and adopted that way.Did'nt mean it was the only way to shoot.I do shoot only self nocks though.No plastic.Anyway that's for the arrow section really and has nothing to do with your question and an irrelevant point made if things are up to snuff like yours....sorry.
I see that your question was two fold then.Durability and accuracy.I know if I shoot consistently every day for a month my accuracy improves too.Shooting a bow involves so many fine points that the only way to get half a$$ accurate consistently is from muscle and mind memory seems for me.
While making and shooting these self bows the bows will reveal different durability wear like set in one limb or another.Should'nt if tillered the same but does occasionally.That could be just bad tillering.So I'm of a belief that it's still all about how well it's tillered no matter where you shoot from on the string for both durability and accuracy.Making your top limb longer for three under.I'll put my time into making it that way if it was me.Each to his own I say.
It was explained before here why the bottom limb gets more stress.Maybe someone can remind us.It'll probably say somewhere in one of the TBB books but don't know where.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline Badger

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2016, 08:47:37 am »
Yep, I was always curious about  how a bow shot with people that string walk. I have watched a few in the last few years and it seems the father the target the better arrow flight they got because they were closer to the nock point. I am trying to get what you are saying wrapped up in my head, :-\ I am pretty dense so it may take a while.  ;) :) :)
 Pappy

  Pappy you are in good company, I don't think I have found anyone that agrees with me on this. Once you tune your bow it doesn't seem to make all that much difference anyway.

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2016, 08:48:31 am »
If the bow's tiller at full draw, what some call relative limb strength, is disproportionate, the stronger acting limb WILL pull the string fulcrum, nock point, and arrow nock toward itself, relative to the shelf. By the time the bow is back at rest, at brace height, it WILL have returned to where it started. Where you and I differ on this Steve, is that you believe it returns AFTER the arrow is gone because the arrow somehow has the ability to completely overpower the strength disparity between the limbs... while myself, I believe the nock point begins to return to its original position as soon as we release the string, because releasing the string allows the power we stored in the limbs (disporoportionately in this case) to affect the arrow. If the nock point is returning to its original position relative to the shelf as the string falls, as I suspect it does, it's taking the arrow nock with it(unless the string slips through nock) until it leaves the string... which can inflict the arrow with a porpoising action. This is why some bows are difficult to tune and folks have to move the nock points to adjust relative limb balance to correct arrow flight.

If what YOU say is true, there would never be such tuning or arrow flight issues, or handshock, etc. because the arrow would cause the tiller to go back to "normal" the instant we let go of the string. That's simply not what I've found to be the case.
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Badger

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2016, 09:03:56 am »
   I pretty much agree with what you are saying, I don't really think it goes back instantly but I think it goes back within a few inches of the power stroke. I would like to see a slow motion video focusing on the knock point and the string.

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2016, 09:13:50 am »
Yeah, me too.... video of the nock point and it's relationship to the shelf/square to the handle, etc as the bow was drawn and shot.

I wish I had a lot more high tech equipment as I work on these primitive bows  :)
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline DC

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2016, 11:34:02 am »
Try this, although I think Mike Loades nock point is out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir5GKAQG14g

Offline loon

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2016, 02:59:27 pm »
  Why would you tiller a bow based on how you pull it? We let go of the string when we shoot it so it should be tillered for wear the arrow sits, it instantly forgets where you lulled it.
Try "gap shooting"? Though that may simply change the angle of the arrow

Offline bubbles

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2016, 12:30:41 am »
Didn't somebody post a whole bunch of super slow MO videos of bows being shot? With bad tiller, nock high,  etc?

Offline DC

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Re: Limb Length
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2016, 10:06:10 am »
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 10:17:04 am by DC »