Diospyros Texana- Texas Persimmon

[SLIMBOB]

This is the second bow I have started with this wood.  First one exploded like a grenade.  My fault really, but the knots on the wood didn't help.  Still I was careless and kaboom!  So, this is my second attempt.  I have seen bows made from Common Persimmon (Diospyros Virginiana I believe) and read some posts on them, but I haven't seen any on the Texas variety.  Wondering if there is any wisdom out there on it.  Completely different looking tree than the common one. Small twisted knotty buggers.  15 feet tall is about average and only occasionally will you see any much bigger.  Hard as a lead pipe.  Very rough on your tools, but it seems to be pretty elastic in nature.  If I can keep this one from killin' me it's gonna be a little short plains bow.  Bendy handle, 51.5" ntn.  about 1 5/8" wide just outside the handle.  I have a good bit that was given to me by a friend.  It's all dry now so I gonna re tackle these bad boys.  Anyone ever work with this stuff?

[Badger]

  My one experience with Texas persimmon was all I needed. I had to resharpen my tools every few strokes. The bandsaw blade lasted about 3 seconds. After about 3 days of torturous work the bow exploded after a handful of shots. I wish you better luck I think mine was full of silica.

[SLIMBOB]

Thanks Steve and good to hear from you!  I am convinced I can finesse one out of this stuff, and moreover, I love the properties of this wood for bowmaking purposes.  Tough but springy.  It does play hell on my tools though.  I have 8 or 10 pieces of it.  Some are way lass than decent, but some are workable. The guy called me and said he had some more for me as well.  I had asked him last time to make them longer and straighter if he could find any.  We'll see.

[le0n]

yes. very tough on the tools.

i shot mine for a few months before one of the limbs cracked off at full draw.

it was fun while it lasted, but i am a bit apprehensive to use persimmon again.

i don't know if it was this specific tx variant of persimmon as it was harvested in oklahoma.

[bradsmith2010]

if you are working with a wood that is questionable,, then the rule of thumb draw lengths,, and bow lengths are out the window
,, if you really want the bow to work, then overbuild it,, draw it shorter etc,, if that one works,, then you can try a more aggressive design,, I would start with longer bow, shorter draw, and rawhide back,, sinew  back would increase odds of success as well,, i would not go more than 22 inches draw,, and that is rawhide backed,, maybe longer draw with sinew,,

[SLIMBOB]

Thanks le0n. 
Bradsmith.  Is this based on your personal experience with it, or are you just making a prediction?  I cant go longer as it is 51.5" long ntn.  I can draw it shorter, but whats the fun in that?  I'm shooting for 24-25 inches of draw length.  Any shorter and I have no use for it.  No rawhide.  Think I can get it there without it.

[le0n]

i can't exactly recall the specs on mine but it was long, ~72" NTN with a ~6-7" handle, ~50# @ 26".

not full draw, but during the build:


partial cambium gave a nice effect:


back:

[SLIMBOB]

le0n, is that a stain you wiped on?  Mine has some of the dark spots, some are jet black, but most of the stave is a creamy white.  I know you said you left some cambium on, but the cambium on mine is different looking.

[le0n]

No, it's just a clear coat.

[Newindian]

I tried once early in my career, the piece of wood was as much a stave as I was a bowyer, however given that it lasted as long as it did I'm given to say it's a good wood, provided you can find something to call a stave.

[SLIMBOB]

Hey neighbor.  I know what you mean.  This one is a limb I split in half.  The other half isn't usable at all.  Still, I like the wood.  Thanks for checking in.

[Knapper]

Slimbob. I have some Persimmon Ive made  bows from, good wood. If you split the limb was your split vertical to the limb  growth or horizontal. As a rule of thumb on using limbs for bows you want to use the upper half of the limb. What you have should be doable. 51" @ 1 5/8. its all in the tiller from here. not sure what type of poundage your shooting for. go slow and easy.
Knapper

[SLIMBOB]

Thanks for the input knapper. No way to tell on which side of the Limb I am dealing with as I wasn't there when it was cut. Neither piece has taken much set and It appears to respond well to some tempering. We'll see how this one turns out and I will parlay that into the next ones. Really like the wood, just having to deal with lots of knots. Haven't considered draw weight yet. I have a niece that I have promised a bow to so this may be hers. Even so I think I will build it heavy and then take it down if I decide to give it to her, mainly just to see what it will do. Thanks.

[Limbit]

The aboriginals here in Taiwan have 3 species of persimmon they use for bows. The most common is wooly persimmon since it grows everywhere and grows very straight with multiple bodies. They say it is the second best bow wood in Taiwan aside from Orange Jessamine. Their one caution is that if it breaks during use, it is terrifying. I've never seen one blow, but I guess it is a hell of a show! I've worked with it a few times and really like the stuff. Looks terrible, but seems to be good in compression and moderately good in tension. I just cut one body off a 3 story Japanese persimmon tree on my land and staved it out. See how it goes!

[SLIMBOB]

Thanks Limbit.  Let me know how yours turns out.