Can only Certain woods be sinew backed?

[Marin]

Hello all,
I have been looking into western indian bows (especially the ones made by Ishi) and was curious in making plans to make my own. However, I live in an area that does not have yew, incesce cedar, or juniper. I  do have a lot of california bay laurel though. However, I was  trying to look into whether or not one can make a nice sinew backed bow from bay laurel but it seems everyone tends to make their sinew backed bows from juniper, yew, or cedar. Can I in theory make an ishi style bow with a sinew or rawhide backing on a california bay (or perhaps,a red oak board) or can you only sinew back certain woods? And why is it people tend to stick with those particular type of woods when they sinew back (I hardly ever see a sinew backed red oak board bow but do see plenty of sinew backed juniper)? I know juniper is brittle but why is it some woods are never used for short, sinew backed bow designs?

[loon]

hickory maybe if it's kept dry enough and I guess heat treated
dunno
osage?

[Marin]

wait, what do you mean? Yes hickory can be sinew backed but can you make a sinew backed bow design with any true bow wood?

[wizardgoat]

Soft woods are compression strong, and very light, so they are a good pairing with sinew if done right.
You can sinew back other woods, but some woods don't need it and sinew is just dead weight.

[mikekeswick]

It's never dead weight unless you make a bow that doesn't strain it.
Feel free to use any wood you can get your hands on. Reverse bracing is a must with sinew to get the most out of it.

[Stick Bender]

I know some native tribes used oak/sinew I dont know if it was red or white or other strain of oak but sinew is a lot of work its worth hunting down a good stave to do it in my opionion  unless you just dont have any other choice you could probably use just about any wood if the bow was designed around it some of the Natives used some inferior woods

[Limbit]

The issue is compression and weight. A bow like you are talking about it pre-stressed and most wood just won't be able to handle the amount of compression the design places on the belly. Juniper, yew and incense cedar are all soft, light weight woods that are very high in compression. If you stack a bunch of sinew on a hard wood, it will be heavy and slow. I have made a mulberry sinew backed paddle bow with a heat treated belly and it works just fine and doesn't weigh much at all. Mulberry that grows here is actually fairly light wood, but very tuff! Laurel might have some major compression issues. Plum would be a good choice if you can go to an orchard and get some usable cuttings. If you are making an Ishi style bow you don't need much wood, and you can always splice...meaning you need VERY little wood. Should be hard to get a straight piece. If you use oak, white oak is typically better than red, but I think you are better off simply sourcing the right type of wood. Where is it you live? Juniper is all over the place.

[Marin]

Limbit
I live in the San Fran Bay Area in the east bay (that's why I have so much bay laurel). I am going to Delta Utah this summer and was thinking of getting some mountain jumper there. Where do you get wood? BLM land, national Forrests (with a permit), or somewhere else. I'm just curious as I don't know how many bowyers get their wood?

[loefflerchuck]

Yes to what Limbit said. You can back anything with sinew but not everything benefits. To add reflex to a wood that is not compression strong means you can not bend it very far and the sinew is not doing much. I have a sinew backed hickory wide flat bow that is one of the slowest bows I have ever made. Narrow sinew backed hickory can make a good bow. If you are it bay country then incense cedar and juniper are only a couple hours to your east.

[loefflerchuck]

Your in the east bay. Incense cedar is not too far. Delta has rocky mt juniper and Utah juniper. It's a lot easier to cut wood in Utah than California.

[Marin]

This is more of a question related to wood cutting but how can I get a permit to cut wood? Do you need a permit? And where can I cut in CA or UT?

[Marin]

loefflerchuck
What do you mean by hickory backed with narrow sinew? Do you mean it has a narrow line of sinew on its back?
Also just to clarify (this is to anyone who is reading or has replied) so not all woods are good for sinew backing because to be a good wood for sinew backing it needs strong compression strength (like yew and incense cedar have). How can you find if a wood has good compression strength?

[loefflerchuck]

I ment a narrow hickory bow backed with sinew works much better than a wide one. Go to a BLM office. They will have plenty of places open to cut live juniper. The only problem is the minimum permit is 2 cords. But that is only $12. So if you can find 1 or 2 strait trees and a few branches that is well worth it.

[Marin]

Thanks for the BLM info.
About wood, how can you tell if a wood has good compression strength (is there a list)?
Also, when cutting a juniper branch for an ishi style bow, how big of a branch in diameter should I be looking? I heard the Yahi would sometimes use saplings of at least 2 inches in diameter (before they were able to have iron hatchets). I mean, I know its sinew backed so I do not have to worry so much about violating the sapwood, right?Sorry,  I'm still trying to understand sinew right now (im a beginner) so any info is helpful.

[Marin]

Does anyone have info on this?