Urgent Stave Question

[Knotty]

Hello everybody!
My name's Isaia, and I'm new to bowyering and to this wonderful community.
I have a question regarding a Brazilian Guava stave I have cut up a couple days ago.
Here in Brazil , unfortunately, it is quite hard to find adequate timber for Bow crafting.
I do know there are a few well-known species such as Ipê and Jatobá (Brazilian Cherry),
But it's not like Hickory or Maple in the US (Which you could find anywhere).

Anyway, back to my question.
Since Brazilian Guava trees have extreme bends and twists in them (due to their high flexibility and water content) this was the best stave I could come up with.

Picture: http://prntscr.com/b9x3pg
.           http://prntscr.com/b9xcsa


As you may see, it has quite a few knots (everywhere) , and knowing that knots could potentially be harmful to the bow, I am a little nervous about working with this stave.
I have seen many videos about chasing back growth rings, carving knots etc.. But that goes beyond my current worksmanship levels.
I was wondering if I could eventually make a Selfbow out of the stave , as is, or if it will eventually need some type of backing..

Also, if I were to back it, since the stave is quite small in diameter, should I just ignore the knots in the back side and cut through them (flattening the back)?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

PS: Excuse my poor English as I'm not from an English-speaking country.

[George Tsoukalas]

Welcome! Your English is excellent.
That's a tough stave for a beginner. It is never a good idea to flatten a knot.
I do  not have any experience with that wood.
Jawge

[ajooter]

Manny (nomadic pirate) has experience with guavas.  Maybe you could pm him.  Good luck and have fun!

[Knotty]

@George Tsoukalas
Thank you for your reply to the thread, at least now I know it's not impossible to work on it, and even though I fail , I'll probably learn and gather myself some experience.

By the way, if I were to cut straight through knots, flatten the back and then glue a backing lamination of bamboo for example, do you think it could work? Or would the flattened knot not resist the tension?


@ajooter , Thank you for your valuable information! I will surely contact him!

[Jim Davis]

If you back the bow with bamboo,  you do want the back as flat as possible when you glue the bamboo on.

You  might be able to work up a bow without backing it. Just remember and notice that the wood fibers do not go through a knot--they go around it. If you can keep from cutting the fibers that go around the knot, you have a good chance of success. As you scrape toward a knot, stop at the side of the center and scrape from the other direction, back to where you stopped scraping. Always work toward the center of the knot, not away from the center.

Jim Davis

[Knotty]

Thank you very much for your informative reply @asharrow .
I will keep that in mind for when I start working the stave,
So if I have understood, if I were to back it with bamboo, I could theoretically flatten the knots?

[mikekeswick]

I think you should seal the ends, pt that away for later and go and look for better (straighter with less/smaller knots) wood. The knots in that stave are in awkward positions. Knots will generally go straight into the staves center and its best to position them in the center of the back so the knot runs straight through the limb. Then you follow the grain around the knot when laying out the limbs width. When treated like this knots aren't a weakness. They become weaknesses when we don't follow the grain correctly!
That stave is not suitable to be 'flattened' and backed with bamboo.

[Knotty]

Alrighty @mikekeswick .
Thank you for your reply, I have to admit everybody so far has been of great help.
What I've done is, I sealed the ends with Super Glue (I have no paint laying around) , I've added a thin layer, so I'm hoping it works and prevents checkering/splitting.
I will probably go look for more staves while this one dries , but I have to say it will be very hard to find one that's better than the one I currently have, I've looked through about 100 trees to find this one, so wish me luck!


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All replies are welcome guys, knowledge is a treasure , so please keep it coming.

[mikekeswick]

Good luck and go look through a thousand!
I dread to think how many I look at now before cutting It's worth it. If you could get an ipe stave you would be well on your way....and there would be a lot of jealous people because we can only get it as boards.

[Knotty]

@mikekeswick , true!
I wish I could get my hands on Ipê as a stave, unfortunately most of Ipê plantations are away from my State, making it impossible for me to go and cut some 😞

I will soon be going to a family-owned property in which there are many trees natives to my area, I hope I can get some nice straight knotless staves!

I'll make sure I post some pictures as soon as I get them cut.

[Jim Davis]

Agree with those above that this stave would be a big challenge for an experienced bowyer. I had not loaded the image when I commented above. Really too many knots and they are too big.

But, you could still flatten the back and back it with bamboo.

[Knotty]

Alright @asharrow , I'll keep that in mind.
I'll probably have to wait several months for it to dry anyway, plenty of time to look for other staves!

[mullet]

Have you tried the Ipe that grows in the State you live in with the yellow or purple flowers? I also think the Cashew tree would work , also. You also have eucalyptus trees on the Tooth Pick Farms.

[Knotty]

@Mullet I have eucalyptus everywhere I look at! I swear!
Unfortunately it's reforestation time in most properties so by law, it's impossible for me to get a cutting authorization.
While Ipê, I could probably find it in one of family's owned lands , I'll be going there next month to grab myself some bamboo and staves and I'll take a look!

[Dakota Kid]

Is it possible for you to get boards from saw mill or lumber yard? I managed to get some Brazilian Cherry that I reclaimed from some hardwood pallets used to ship steel to a factory nearby. Some of the pieces have straight enough grain for a board bow. A bow made from a board is a much easier build for a beginner. It still took me a couple tries to get my first board bow right. Good Luck.

If you can find some, this would be an excellent wood to use either as a stave or a board.
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/argentine-osage-orange/