Author Topic: Backing Grain  (Read 2213 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Backing Grain
« on: April 08, 2016, 08:24:34 pm »
I've backed a couple of bows with bamboo and that's fairly straight forward, The grain follows the back. When you are trying to cut other wood like hickory how do you cut an 1/8" strip without having a shipload of grain runout?

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 08:34:26 pm »
 By selecting straight grain and following it as closely as possible. No different from selecting a good board except you're the one in charge of producing the board.

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 10:02:55 pm »
Do most people freehand them on a bandsaw?

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 10:39:26 pm »
 Tablesaw more likely. You can do it any way you want though depending on your initial selection of stock.

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 11:33:03 pm »
I just have a hard time imagining a grain that straight. It must exist though. :)

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 12:02:41 am »
It's definitely out there.  Mature trees of the right species can produce some remarkable stuff.

Offline bow101

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,235
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 04:57:10 am »
One thing I can tell you I never had a 1/8" backing strip crack or split just because, its always been the lam underneath.   If it wants to break it will break, thats my 2 bits worth for the day .   >:D   Perfect grain..?  ???
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are."  Joseph Campbell

Offline Dances with squirrels

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,222
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 09:46:56 am »
I suspect by 'grain' runout you actually meant growth ring runout? Regardless, I'll answer regarding both radial grain runout and ring runout.

First of all, it's difficult to do by way of store bought, or 'incidental' lumber since it's produced with entirely different requisites in mind. I've done it, searched through mountains of beautiful hickory and hard maple lumber and felt like I really accomplished something if I left with even a single piece. But even then, aside from the 'grain' issues, I always have doubts in the back of my mind about the tree selection and its treatment between felling and drying.

The best ways I've found to better the odds of straight radial grain and growth rings is either A.) buy from a supplier/sawyer that is a bowyer himself, or one sympathetic to a bowyer's needs.(and even then I've learned not to trust them 100%) or... B.) choose a tree myself that has the qualities needed, have it sawn into oversized lumber to produce the most and best possible grain and ring orientation, dry it and then reduce it and resaw the backing strips myself with the same requisites in mind.

I recently cut two big pignut hickory trees and began to envision the orientation of the backing strips, and a few staves within, before they hit the ground. Once down, I strategically planned each and every cut, beginning with how far I made the first cut from the butt swell(running a butt swell through a sawmill means ring violations), and including each cut made at the sawmill(I was 6' from the blade directing the sawyer as he positioned the log for the cuts), so that I maximized the amount of wood I would get with near-perfect straight grain and ring orientation.

I undoubtedly got a LOT more pieces for backing strips than would have been possible if I wouldn't have formulated a plan with him prior to 'cut day', and hadn't been there in person at the mill... than if I trusted him to understand and do what was best for the bows on his own. I also got some very nice wood for cores, lams, even several nice staves fell out from between them all(Plan the work and work the plan ;) I KNOW that wouldn't have happened without my presence.  But even with all of that attention to detail, there's only so much you can do. As good as it looks now drying in my garage, I expect considerable future loss due to 'the process', but I think we did the best we could have done with them to this point.

The nicest looking trees on the outside are rarely perfect on the inside. When it comes to these backing strips we'd like to have with perfect grain and rings, the pickier we are about it, the less material we net as a result, but I'm ok with that because I want to be confident in the material I use for my bows and their durability afterwards.

To more directly answer your question perhaps... in order to cut backing strips with minimal radial grain runout, the tree must have VERY straight radial grain to begin with... there's no fixing or avoiding it. Then depending on which cut being made, it must be sawed parallel or perpendicular to that grain at the sawmill... and again as we resaw it at home. Picking the absolute best tree for the task though is Job #1, and MUCH of the balance falls into place following that.

In order for there to be no growth ring runout, the section of the tree used must be of a consistent diameter, straight, oriented with the rings as parallel or perpendicular as possible to the blade for each cut, or ample room left to do so at home, and dried properly to minimize warpage. Perfectly straight grain won't be straight in the end if it warps. And, toward that end we should choose a 'neutral-growing' tree, growing straight up and protected from prevailing winds and other factors, with minimal differences in tension and compression sides as this too helps minimize warping as it dries. Again, Job #1 is proper tree selection. With it, many pitfalls are avoided.

I better stop there... Sorry that was so long... ???
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,609
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2016, 10:37:13 am »
I bought a 8/4x6"x10' long hickory board from a specialty lumber company for about $30(about 10 years ago) and cut backing strips from along the edge with a table saw. I cut each strip at about 3/16" and after dressing both sides they came out to about 1/8". You have to be very careful cutting those this strips on a table saw that it doesn't shoot the strip out at high speed. Resawing on a band saw with a fence would probably be safer.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2016, 11:26:32 am »
My preferred method is to just choose a smaller straight tree and reduce it down to a thin strip  of the outside of the tree.   So exactly the same process you use for bamboo.
 Here is an example of a strip of hickory in the process of being reduced and a strip of Ash close to being ready to apply.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 11:32:23 am by PatM »

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2016, 11:47:05 am »
Thanks guys. It sounds just as fussy as I thought it must be. I guess once you find a straight piece like that you can get quite a few backing strips. Since I have to steam just about every piece of wood I use I forgot that some trees grow very straight. Around here the only ones that do are are alder, fir and spruce. Not backing wood.
  DWS, yes I know there is a difference between the two "grains" but after using them interchangeably for 60+ years, well you know ;). Long is good :D

Offline Springbuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,545
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 08:22:44 pm »
Cool, Pat.  I did this before with a couple elm saplings that always seem to have at least one smooth side, but I didn't have good results flattening the glue side, and getting them consistent thickness, so I only tried twice.  Also, one curled like a ribbon on top of a Christmas present.  But I might revisit this.

Offline Del the cat

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,322
    • Derek Hutchison Native Wood Self Bows
Re: Backing Grain
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2016, 03:13:03 am »
Nic pics Pat, I've done the same with Yew where I've had really thick sapwood, I've sawn off the outer layer and saved it as a backing strip.
Did one bow Yew heartwood, backed with Yew sapwood... it does confuse some people! >:D
An alternative is to have the backing edge grain instead, sawn so it loos like this end on   ||||||||||
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.