New Turkish 48 inch

[mikekeswick]

Mike, how do you do your joint between horn and belly?  Deep matched toothing grooves, flat, or flat and roughened up? Do you use fish glue?

Sorry only just seen your question.....On this one I used 2mm deep matching grooves and a mix of sinew and hide glue. The fish bladder glue from yellow croakers is very good (slower gelling) and is what I've been using on my last couple of hornbows since the one in this post.

[sleek]

Mike, how were your chrono results, and can you please give us force draw numbers? I am trying my hardest to recreate horn bow performance with a pure osage self bow and would like a base line for comparison please. This bow is perfect as it is in the same size ntn and poundage I am trying to emulate.

[mikekeswick]

I can't remember off the top of my head....I'm sure I wrote it all down somewhere, I will have to have a look and see if I can find them. I haven't measured the force/draw curve but I will. If you can make an osage bow with such string tension at brace....i'll be surprised!!
I've got another Turkish bow almost ready to be tillered now. It has more reflex i the bending limbs than I've seen before on a working bow....IF I can get it strung and to full draw I think it will be quite special. I also have a Magyar (kind of) bow just about ready - it's force draw curve might be a better challenge for a wooden bow.

[loon]

My ~58# Magyar bow (from my recent thread) has so much string tension, I can't imagine a heavier Turkish bow O_o It's already way more than in any of my glass pony bows..

Good luck

[mikekeswick]

I can't find all my fps stats on this bow.....
But I just shot a couple of arrows with it for you. I'll do some more if you want? Anyway 320 grain arrow -  235 fps.  This bow makes me smile whenever I shoot it

[sleek]

Thanks I appreciate that.

That is straight up moving! Now I just need to calculate the amount of kenetic energy in that arrow and compare it to what I make.

One of these days mike, Im gonna have to find a way to get you to make me a bow.

[sleek]

 

According to realtree this is what your bow comes out to.

[sleek]

And this is mine. Both our bows are very close in stats. Mine is 49 ttt and 65@26.  I believe I can get better numbers and do as well as your horn bow with just a self bow of osage.

Im using your bows as a reference to guage how well I do on mine.I hope you don't mind.

[loon]

Yet supposedly 50# is enough for any game... that thing is for compounds with light arrows?

[sleek]

Loon, there is much more to it than that. This has 0 to do with bows period. It has to do with arrows energy level. The arrow doesnt care what gave it that energy. We are only measuring arrow energy and I am trying to make all wooden bows that can deliver the same energy a horn bow can by staying the same size tip to tip.

[mullet]

I think so much of these kind of "punch it in " stat's is BS. A gimmick to get you to buy into buying more gadgets.  A few years ago when I was hunting in Tenn. a young man shooting a bow I think was around 30# killed two of the nicest Bucks I've seen come from that area since I've had the chance to hunt there.

[loon]

>65 foot-pounds recommended for biggest game

< 25 ft. lbs.
Small Game (rabbit, groundhog, etc.)
25-41 ft. lbs.
Medium Game (deer, antelope, etc.)
42-65 ft. lbs.
Large Game (elk, black bear, wild boar, etc.)
> 65 ft. lbs.

I think momentum might matter more for us.. and that may be a bit overkill

what I mean is that this is probably meant for compound shooters who shoot really light fast arrows

I double-checked the KE using wolfram alpha and it was right

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1%2F2+*+571+*+155%5E2+grains*fps%5E2+to+foot-pounds

Still, KE usually increases with heavier arrows?

Sorry, it was hard to not derail the topic after seeing that "oh yeah only for smaller deer" thing


anyway good luck, would like to see turkish hornbows matched with osage

[mullet]

I don't think you can "Cookie Cutter" it for bows using natural products, especially Horn bows.

[mikekeswick]

Ek = 1/2mv2.   So just convert grains to kg and velocity to meters per second.

The thing with Turkish bows is that they don't really come into their own until you make them around 100# plus. Think of them as two parts  working in unison. Bending inner limbs (sals) and the non bending outers limbs and tips (kasans/tips).  The outer limbs for a 50# bow need to be the same dimensions as for a 100# bow. This is so that the bow can be tillered into stability, if you tried to make the 50# bows outer limbs proportionately smaller than the 100# bow you would have zero chance of it being stable.
Adam Karpowzi shows this in his book and offers a ratio of weight to draw weight as a good indicator of performance. The best bows will have a ratio of around 3, this bow is more like 6.5 (lower = better!). I've just started tillering a heavy bow and it weighs 320 grams and is definitely going to be close to 100# = 3.2.
There is no reason a wooden bow shouldn't be able to get close to what a lighter weight composite can do. The lighter the composite the smaller the gap and below 50# the wooden bow will likely win.

[sleek]

Thanks for that Mike.  I would have never known otherwise. It is still my goal though to make self bows that can hang at least side by side their horn counterparts. You got me thinking about a 100 pounder now....48 inches ttt, 28 inches lf draw.... man, that would be fun. Especially if I could find somebody else to test fire it!