Author Topic: Yewbranch ELB  (Read 11609 times)

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Offline E. Jensen

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2015, 01:44:42 pm »
Poaching is not cool.  People here in the US feel it is their right to poach redwood burls from the park, leaving ugly scars on the trees that people enjoy. You have no idea who enjoys those trees.  There are legal channels to go through, as a matter of respect and of law.  It doesn't even seem like you attempted this.  Maybe it would have been different if you asked first, was denied and then did it.  Maybe not.  I don't know. 

At least though, a beautiful bow was made.  It would have been a far greater crime if the wood was poached and wasted.  Just my $.02 for a fight I don't have a dog in.

Offline Jodocus

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2015, 01:51:39 pm »
Good looking bow, nice bend. Never mind the dirty little secret about it. >:D
Don't shoot!

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2015, 06:52:07 pm »
Poaching is not cool.  People here in the US feel it is their right to poach redwood burls from the park, leaving ugly scars on the trees that people enjoy. You have no idea who enjoys those trees.  There are legal channels to go through, as a matter of respect and of law.  It doesn't even seem like you attempted this.  Maybe it would have been different if you asked first, was denied and then did it.  Maybe not.  I don't know. 

At least though, a beautiful bow was made.  It would have been a far greater crime if the wood was poached and wasted.  Just my $.02 for a fight I don't have a dog in.

Now there's a can of worms if you ask me, which you didn't  >:D
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline cadet

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2015, 07:22:21 pm »
I'm soon gonna use this bow for poaching the "land owners" pheasants. I dont suppose you guys will approve of  this either. hahaha

Its true what Del said. The church stole the land in the first place, they stole all the ancient sites of britain, and then they pertend to have some moral high ground....The land of a country belongs to the people of that country, not just a few greedy people . I have a God given right to take some natural resources without permission from other men...I'll take what I need, when I need it, from where I see fit. Then I will accept the consequences of my own actions according to my own conscience..The moral high ground is to not take more than you need from this earth. Not to beleive its somehow morally  right to chop down trees, because some rich guy has given permission, or because you have exchanged some tokens with the queens head on it.

no one will have even noticed the missing branch, no one suffered , no one was hurt by my actions, only the tree.
Those who have criticised my actions are pathetic IMHO and I dont want or need  any credibility from the likes of you.
Sanctimonious just about sums it up.....good word Del!!!

you can not own the land, just because you have a peice of paper to say so , does this give a man the right to chop the trees on that land? and kill what ever lives on that land.? if you beleive this, your morals mean nothing to me....you can only beleive you own the land!,there is nothing quasi about it...



.
Perhaps we're coming from very different cultural and political contexts and perspectives about resource use and ownership.  Here, native title was established by our High Court's Mabo judgement, meaning that some land is recognised as having been owned by someone in an unbroken line spanning millennia.  Whether traditional owners, or owners under some more contemporary arrangement, those people hold and manage that land in trust for generations past, present and future, and usually deserve consultation, if possible, practical and reasonable, before we help ourselves.

But if your conscience is perfectly clear and you can fully justify it to yourself, good luck to you.  I couldn't.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 07:53:13 pm by cadet »

Offline Hamish

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2015, 07:57:22 pm »
Definitely two  broadly valid  perspectives here(and a nice bow). There are plenty of instances where I wouldn't condone taking a tree without permission. For instance from a residential property, town public garden, or from a rare or historically noteworthy specimen.
I have seen enough fine timber get cut down and turned into garden mulch, firewood and landfill, or left to rot, crack and check until the  timber is useless,  that deserved a much better fate. Many land owners don't give a crap about trees in general, let alone understand the cultural, historical traditions and usage of timber.

How many yew trees grow straight enough and clean enough to provide a bow...not many. Surely it is a crime of sorts to waste such wood. On many trees cutting a branch can invigorate growth, the tree sends up new growth in clear, straight sections, providing subsequent generations with wood for bows. It called coppicing, and is a sustainable, renewable, and responsible usage of trees and timber management. The key to this system, is that it needs to be maintained. The slow growth of many trees means that in this day and age, the person who planted the tree probably won't gain any advantage from the tree he plants. Property changes hands many times over and the culture and its maintenance is lost.


What I said is a generalization. I'm not recommending anyone else to poach, or saying I would do it, but I certainly don't feel any less about someone who does choose to take a branch or even a tree providing it doesn't get wasted.


Offline dragonman

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2015, 06:45:37 am »
heres a little story for the sanctimonious ones;

A man was coming home from the pub late at night and he had had a little too much to drink. He couldnt make it home that night and he fell a sleep under a tree whilst crossing a field on his way home.  In the morning the farmer came along and said angrily "what are you doing on my land "  ( as they usually do).  The man replied, " ah , so its your land is it?  prove it, where did you get it from?. The farmer replies that his father left it to him...and where did he get it replied the man,...His father left it to him, replied the farmer.....and where did he get it , asked the man...The farmer starts to get annoyed ( as they do) , and replied..." well if you go back far enough, I suppose my ancestors fought for it.." "Ah said the man, I thought as much...I tell you what we'll do  ...I'll fight you for this piece of land"
The farmer , who didnt have the courage of his ancestors, predictably, refused the challenge and got on the phone to the police to help him.....

ultimately all land is "owned by force"  the church may claim ownership of the said yew tree....But the truth is known, they stole that land many years ago from the indigenous people whom they tortured killed and persecuted, to maintain ownership.

your sanctimonious ( look it up ina dictionary ) ethics mean nothing, no more than the churches claimed ownership of the tree.

If you guys like going around begging permission to make your immitation indiginous bows go ahead, I wont criticise you.
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......

Offline BowEd

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2015, 07:48:25 am »
Dragonman.....Things are different in your UK than here as cadet said.I really don't know why I'm explaining this because it's ridiculous.Yes I am a land owner.Worked hard to save money to buy this land.Farmed it.Fed millions of people with it.Maintained it.Stuck my life into it.Proud of it.I take responsibility to take care of it.I have no bigotry or resentment towards renters or acreage owners.I do not sue people for just being on my land.If you want to own land save your  money,and don't tell me you won't or can't because you hate land owners.If you can't handle being called a thieve it's not my problem but yours.
I'll tell you a story.This happened more than once too.During winters in Iowa some people go in the ditch along my property.I have no obligation to help them.They are stuck.It would cost them hundreds of dollars to be towed out by a towing service.Either I see them in the ditch or they come to the door to tell me.I pull them out for nothing just so they can be on their way.
Another story.I have to buy insurance to protect myself in case people or trespassers really,hurt themselves without telling me on my property.Maybe he breaks his leg.It's not my fault.In case this person wants to sue me for being in a place without asking me.
Yes things are different in the US,and very glad that I live here.



BowEd
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Ed

Offline WillS

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2015, 08:35:24 am »
Things aren't different in the UK Beadman - don't let somebody like this persuade you otherwise.  What he's done is stealing, no matter what country it happened in.  He knows he did something morally wrong (hence why he had to use night time to do it) and wasn't expecting being called out on it.  His attitude towards poaching in general, and the comments about stealing somebody's pheasants says everything about his character.

As for his comments that I can't help taking personally:

I don't own land, and never have done, but I understand the rights of people who work for that privilege.  If I see some yew that I think would make a nice bow, I ask them.  If they say no, I assume they have their reasons and I move on, without a bit of wood (did you know it actually does grow on trees?  There's always some more around, if you look ;) ).  If they say yes, we come to an agreement about it and usually that means exchanging a tenner or something, or more often a bottle of wine, or an offer to spend a day playing with some bows and arrows and passing on the excitement and passion to somebody else. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 08:41:59 am by WillS »

Offline BowEd

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2015, 09:10:49 am »
If you want to live in the past laws that's your business.You will come out the loser.As you are experiencing.Even the Indians as you quoted had laws to deal with thievery,and thievery is thievery no gray area.If you believe in your beliefs why would you go in the dark to collect wood.Stand behind your beliefs.Do it in the daylight.Have fun sneaking around,and yes we will continue to keep making these bows with or without your comments.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline PatM

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2015, 09:16:08 am »
" I can't tell you how many times I have acquired staves with acts resting somewhere between larceny and a bad pruning job" - Tim Baker

Offline BowEd

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2015, 09:37:14 am »
That don't make it right.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline dragonman

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2015, 09:48:58 am »
Beadman and Willis, you're funny ;D...In all seriousness tho, I dont think you ever grasped my original point. Who owns the churchyard?
Is a church the house of God or not? It either is or it isnt? The christians who built it say it is, they proudly state this is the house of God...Therefore like I said at the start of this insane discussion, seriously, I DID ASK PERMISSION from the owner. Not only that, I recognised the true status of the tree as an independent living being iis own right, and I also ASKED PERMISSION from the tree its self to cut its limb...I even asked the spirits of the dead lying in the ground, (even tho they where christians.)

From my perspective those who dont ask the spirit of the tree are the thieves....still I dont criticise them for their lack of vision!!

Maybe you dont believe in tree spirits,? well I dont believe in the power of pieces of paper that say people own land.  Each to his own beliefs....I am not criticising your beliefs , as you Wills started off all this criticism.  Maybe thats all you can do, criticise and find faults?  :(  Why dont you criticise those who stole the churchyard in the first place,surely thats a greater crime???

Didnt someone say once ...Let him without sin caste the first stone.....think a bit deeper before you get on your high horse and call people thieves and assume the role of a judge...it could be you who ends up the loser

Dragonman
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2015, 10:26:36 am »
Hi Guys,

its a really nice bow, by the way, but could I refer you guys to the thread I started on this very topic here http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50843

as we have kinda been here before.  Happy Christmas and Nadolig LLawen pawb :)

Offline WillS

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2015, 10:58:56 am »
Nadolig Llawen!  Were you aware of the warbow shoot in Monmouth this Christmas?  Lovely shoot, and local to you if you're in Cardiff!   ;)

Offline BowEd

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Re: Yewbranch ELB
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2015, 11:00:52 am »
We're funny????We are'nt ranting and raving.Now that's funny in a sick way I don't see.Now you want to talk religion as an excuse and want to quote the bible.None of us are without sin.You chose thieving.End of that.That's too bad your church is that way.There are things here in the US that are not fair either.You want everyone to see your points but none of the others.Your story changes as things go along.Now you say you had permission.
Let me ask you this and this I think is very funny.How many trees have you planted?I can honestly say I've planted over 10,000 trees.Took care of them.Not for me mostly but for future generations.What exactly type of vision are you talking about for the betterment of trees.If it makes you feel better to say you got permission from the tree.Fine.Have you ever heard one say no don't cut me down today.There's not a bow in me.I expect not.Do you think the Indians asked a tree if it wanted to become firewood?I lived next to Indians where I come from.
I've done tons more praising on here than criticizing.It's just that it's about you now.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed