Perry Reflex

[bow101]

Say you have 2 bows identical in length and weight same wood. One bow is flat the other one has 2-3" perry reflex induced.  Both bows take about 2" of set.  Obviously the unstrung flat bow  is noticeable the other one not.
Which bow is better dynamically and in the long run; a better shooter, cast, durability etc.... the one with Perry Reflex or the flat bow or both the same.  ?

[bubbles]

Just to be clear, (since sometimes definitions differ) the perry reflex bow when finished is flat or has 1" of reflex compared to another bow which was not reflexed and ended up with 2" of set or string follow?

[BowEd]

A friend of mine Grant Poindexter has made countless perry reflexed bows and quite a few self bows too.He kind of mentored me in the beginning of myself making bows.His were mostly bamboo backed perry reflexed.I've made a number of them myself till I settled in with self & sinewed and horn constructed bows.Very fun bows to shoot.We tested them quite extensively using them hunting,brace time,shooting through the chrono etc.They all take set to a degree and if used extensively will get just plain wore out like anything else if it's your only bow to hunt with.The difference between 1" of reflex and a flat profile between 2 bows as far as speed goes is very minimal.3 to 4 foot a second we've found.Someone else on here can comment for you too from their findings.

[Springbuck]

Like Bubbles, I want to understand the question better.  In my experience, and having mentally cataloged the experience of many others for the past 20 years, the question you posted, with the results you listed, actually means mistakes were already made.

First, The whole point of a Perry reflexed bow is that it will take less set than a selfbow.  The entire paradox is that by reflexing it you actually relieve strain.  So, if a Perry bow takes 2" of set, the bowyer either over-strained the design/materials anyway, tillered badly, or something like that. 

  In real life, assuming high tillering skill, and assuming the limbs physically weigh about the same, the Perry bow should take less set, hold the profile, and maintain the high level of energy storage.  So the comparison would be between a Perry bow with 1.5" of reflex, and a selfbow sith 2" of set.  OR, they could have comparable set, the selfbow with 2" of stringfollow, the Perry bow with tips even with handles, BUT the Perry bow with 20% less limb mass (figure grabbed out of the air).

  R/D bow especially seem to shoot great forever for me, and I have seen no real indication that Perry reflexing contributes to shorter bow life overall, BUT, the devil IS in the details.   It is harder to execute a Perry reflexed bow properly as far as tiller and limb profile..  Glue lines and wood selections cause all kinds of new quandrys and issues, etc.  So, for simplicity, maybe the self bow,

[PatM]

Like Bubbles, I want to understand the question better.  In my experience, and having mentally cataloged the experience of many others for the past 20 years, the question you posted, with the results you listed, actually means mistakes were already made.

First, The whole point of a Perry reflexed bow is that it will take less set than a selfbow.  The entire paradox is that by reflexing it you actually relieve strain.  So, if a Perry bow takes 2" of set, the bowyer either over-strained the design/materials anyway, tillered badly, or something like that. 

  In real life, assuming high tillering skill, and assuming the limbs physically weigh about the same, the Perry bow should take less set, hold the profile, and maintain the high level of energy storage.  So the comparison would be between a Perry bow with 1.5" of reflex, and a selfbow sith 2" of set.  OR, they could have comparable set, the selfbow with 2" of stringfollow, the Perry bow with tips even with handles, BUT the Perry bow with 20% less limb mass (figure grabbed out of the air).

  R/D bow especially seem to shoot great forever for me, and I have seen no real indication that Perry reflexing contributes to shorter bow life overall, BUT, the devil IS in the details.   It is harder to execute a Perry reflexed bow properly as far as tiller and limb profile..  Glue lines and wood selections cause all kinds of new quandrys and issues, etc.  So, for simplicity, maybe the self bow,

 That theory that a perry reflex has relieved strain and takes less set actually doesn't hold water. Cut one apart after use and the belly will show just as much set.  It's the back pulling it back into reflex that gives the illusion.

[Badger]

  I haven't noticed any difference in how much set they take so much. But I do notice a consistent difference in performance between self bows and backed bows. I won't say Perry reflex because I see the same difference with multiple lams. I would say same profile backed bow will out shoots a self bow of same profile by about 8 to 10 fps on an average.

[BowEd]

Yes I understand the dynamics of what a perry reflex does and was speaking from well tillered bows.Yes a perry reflexed bow can have a little less mass with the glue line doing some work than a self bow.All bow101 asked is the difference between 1" of reflex as far as speed goes and you'll find it is'nt that much.The difference does increase of course with more reflex.By saying mentally cataloging something do you mean building or quoting mentally what you read?I should say these bows were not just occasionaly taken out on the weekends to shoot for 3 or 4 hours.They were strung 6 to 10 hours a day hunting 90 days out of a year and target shot extensively inbetween.That is the only way to properly test a bow for durability and ease of use and construction.The old self bow is hard to beat.I've found composites fill my bill the best yet.

[bow101]

Just to be clear, (since sometimes definitions differ) the perry reflex bow when finished is flat or has 1" of reflex compared to another bow which was not reflexed and ended up with 2" of set or string follow?

Nope just basically comparing the reflex bow to a flat bow and/or the flat bow having a backing just the same. Both bows must be the same thickness, I  hope it clears it up.  That is a given here.
The 2" of set or string follow is just something I  threw out there as a Variable.   

That theory that a perry reflex has relieved strain and takes less set actually doesn't hold water. Cut one apart after use and the belly will show just as much set.  It's the back pulling it back into reflex that gives the illusion.

The best one I built so far is my 3 piece all wood laminate limbs.  They are glued in reflex but the bow seems to shoot quite fast and is smoother than silk drawing.   I guess I fluked out in design and wood choice or something.   

[PatM]

If the bows are the same thickness the perry reflexed bow will be heavier.
  The perry principle is fine because it strains more of the mass of the bow but I really don't think it relieves belly strain.

[bow101]

All bow101 asked is the difference between 1" of reflex as far as speed goes and you'll find it is'nt that much.

My main question is.
"Which bow is better dynamically and in the long run; a better shooter, cast, durability etc.... "
And as an example both have taken 2" of set for both bows.    Let me put it another way both bows have taken only 1/4" of set..  So that variable of bad building taken out of the equation. 

[Badger]

     As for perry reflexed bows. If the bow has no reflex and is straight I don;t notice much difference from a self flat bow. My above post stated what I have found in reflexed bows.

[Pat B]

I don't think you can beat a well made selfbow for durability and if you learn the trajectory of that bow it won't let you down. 

[Wooden Spring]

A reflexed bow will always store more energy than a comparable bow that is not reflexed.

[BowEd]

Congrats on your bow.They are fun to shoot for sure.I've seen so many different types of backing on here to different types of woods that's eye opening.Learning the different strengths of different types of wood.Mass weight etc.That can be an on going adventure too.As well as different types of designs of self bows.Very interesting.So what's a sure winner combo here?Maple over cherry maybe?....lol.

[Badger]

Congrats on your bow.They are fun to shoot for sure.I've seen so many different types of backing on here to different types of woods that's eye opening.Learning the different strengths of different types of wood.Mass weight etc.That can be an on going adventure too.As well as different types of designs of self bows.Very interesting.So what's a sure winner combo here?Maple over cherry maybe?....lol.

  Maple over cherry is a great combo, it is really difficult to measure how much a back is stretching compared to how much the belly is compressing but I suspect maple is fairly elastic in tension. If I make a hickory backed cherry and a maple backed cherry the maple backed will be a bit thicker when finished and less likely to chrysal.